Re: review of hgroup element prior to last call.

Dear Ian,
see [3] & [4] for background on the following

As the editor of the html5 spec and you being the only person that can
add/modify/remove text in the html5 spec, any attempt at an amicable
resolution in regards to the modification/removal of hgroup will naturally
require your participation. Lars Gunther provides a good summation of where
we are at in regards to hgroup [1]

I for one think that hgroup is something worth discussing sooner rather than
later, as I believe there is a good chance that  further discussion and
review will lead to a substantive change. Having hgroup as is,  in the HTML5
spec, if indeed it is removed or modified, does no one any favours
especially developers who may use the element.

As you are a crucial blocking step in the review cycle, would you be willing
to expidite your review of the bugs [2] relating to hgroup, so others in the
working group can progress the issue if necessary?

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jan/0256.html
[2] 11731 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11731> ,
11737<http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11737>,
11828 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11828>

[3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jan/0298.html
[4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jan/0299.html


regards
Stevef



On 23 January 2011 17:33, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net> wrote:

> On 01/23/2011 12:10 PM, Steve Faulkner wrote:
>
>> Dear chairs,
>> I want to raise the issue of hgroup.
>>
>> The element's inclusion in the HTML5 spec as is,  I believe is not
>> widely supported by HTML5 advocates and those involved in the HTML5
>> standard development.
>>
>> It is currently the subject of 3  bug reports, 2 of which call for its
>> removal hgroup, the other calls for a major change via the addition of a
>> new element to HTML5.
>>
>> lars gunther provided a good overview of the issue in his recent post to
>> the HTML list
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jan/0256.html
>>
>> understanding that we have the html wg process marching on, I wanted to
>> know if there was any room to consider dealing with hgroup prior to last
>> call?
>>
>> I believe that if the W3C html working group were to review hgroup prior
>> to last call there is a very good probability that hgroup will be
>> substantially modified or removed from HTML5 altogether. If this is a
>> likely outcome then it would be best for all involved in web development
>> that this occurred sooner rather than later, rather than people wasting
>> their time using the element. we currently have an opportunity to modify
>> or remove the element while it has no real implementation or authoring
>> impact, we may not be able to say that down the track a while.
>>
>> Is there an opportunity for the feeling of the working group to gauged
>> on an issue such as this? via an informal poll for example.
>>
>
> Initial thoughts (without having checked with anybody):
>
> 1) Anything that comes to amicable consensus and is incorporated into the
> document prior to Last Call will be included in Last Call.  Another question
> that could reasonably be asked is "would we be willing to hold up last call
> until there is consensus on this issue?".  The answer to that question is
> that it is rather doubtful at this point.
>
> 2) I personally think polls are more effective when they are based on
> tangible and concrete proposals complete with rationale.  That being said,
> if somebody were to draft up a poll, and there is sufficient interest
> expressed in having such a poll (my personal rule of thumb remains "three
> independent people expressing support, and more people saying yes than no"),
> then it would likely happen.
>
> Note: I tried to provide a full and complete answer, and in the process I
> may have answered questions that you did not ask or did not intend to ask.
>  If so, I did not mean to imply anything about your intentions in my
> answers.
>
>
>  thanks for your consideration
>>
>> --
>> with regards
>>
>> Steve Faulkner
>> Technical Director - TPG
>>
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
>