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Re: what is dt?

From: Shelley Powers <shelleyp@burningbird.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:45:55 -0500
Message-ID: <4AB3AB33.6060603@burningbird.net>
To: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
CC: Lars Gunther <gunther@keryx.se>, public-html@w3.org
Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
> Lars Gunther On 09-09-18 16.21:
>
>> 2009-09-18 02:51, Leif Halvard Silli skrev:
>>> Another "fun" effect: What if the <h1> would be the very last element?
>>> (<figure> allow the caption as last element.)
>>
>> Which means that all of a sudden dd can come before dt? That would be 
>> counter intuitive.
>
> Yes, that is part of the current solution to figure in the draft. (And 
> I admit responsibility for having suggested it [1].)
>
> [1] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6543#c5
Well, I've re-opened the bug, so to speak. Actually, two bugs: one for 
the redefinition and reuse of dt/dd generally; one specific to Figure.

This, again, will just cause confusion to web page authors. In fact, I 
have a feeling more than one of us has had to go back multiple times to 
the specification to try and figure out exactly how dt/dd are being used 
within the three different elements. And as people have stated time and 
again, we're not the average web page authors.

We can't say dt/dd are term/value pairs any longer, because usage isn't 
always based on an equal number of both.

We can't count on dt being present, or even first.

We can't count on dd being present, or even last.

The syntactic rules (content model) are becoming increasingly arcane. 
There's definitely little or no semantic similarities to the three 
different usages any longer.

I don't think I have to stretch to suggest a scenario, where a person 
sees dt and dd being used in Figure, as follows:

<figure>
 <dd>
  <img src="bubbles-work.jpeg"
       alt="Bubbles, sitting in his office chair, works on his
            latest project intently.">
 </dd>
 <dt>Bubbles at work</dt>
</figure>

And assumes the same order applies to details:

<section class="progress window">
 <h1>Copying "Really Achieving Your Childhood Dreams"</h1>
 <details>
  <dd>
   <dl>
    <dt>Transfer rate:</dt> <dd>452KB/s</dd>
    <dt>Local filename:</dt> <dd>/home/rpausch/raycd.m4v</dd>
    <dt>Remote filename:</dt> <dd>/var/www/lectures/raycd.m4v</dd>
    <dt>Duration:</dt> <dd>01:16:27</dd>
    <dt>Color profile:</dt> <dd>SD (6-1-6)</dd>
    <dt>Dimensions:</dt> <dd>320240</dd>
   </dl>
  </dd>
  <dt>Copying... <progress max="375505392" value="97543282"></progress> 
25%</dt>
 </details>
</section>

And the same confusion applying to the dl element. Or some combination 
of morphed syntax, none of which will be conforming, and all of which 
could end up generating significantly different behavior in different 
browsers.


Shelley
Received on Friday, 18 September 2009 15:46:44 GMT

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