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Re: ARIA's role="" attribute (was Re: [Bug 7509] Consider <dl type="dialog"> instead of <dialog>)

From: Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:25:59 -0700
Message-ID: <63df84f0909101225h532f789etef8d31caacad0beb@mail.gmail.com>
To: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Cc: "Edward O'Connor" <hober0@gmail.com>, Toby Inkster <tai@g5n.co.uk>, HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 3:00 AM, Leif Halvard Silli
<xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no> wrote:
> Leif Halvard Silli On 09-09-10 11.24:
>
>> Jonas Sicking On 09-09-10 07.22:
>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Leif Halvard Silli
>>>> <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Microdata or the class="" attribute can both be used to annotate HTML
>>>>>> elements with more specific semantics than their native semantics
>>>>>> provide.
>>>>>
>>>>> If - say - AT software is supposed to recognize something as a dialog,
>>>>> then
>>>>> neither of those a likely to be enough.
>>>>
>>>> I'm personally not at all a fan of using class to add semantics. I
>>>> think the class attribute namespace should belong to authors. That is
>>>> why I was arguing for the removal of predefined class values back when
>>>> they were in the HTML5 drafts.
>>>>
>>>> However I don't see why something like a microformat or RDFa wouldn't
>>>> be an acceptable way to expose something to AT software. Once that
>>>> microformat or RDFa vocabulary has become popular enough that it gains
>>>> some sort of critical mass that is.
>>>
>>> Arg, that should have said "Once that microdata format or RDFa
>>> vocabulary has become..".
>>>
>>> I am a big fan of microformats, however I don't like that they many
>>> times use the class attribute. However I understand that they chose to
>>> do that given what "hooks" that HTML4 provided. That's why I'm a fan
>>> of microdata in HTML5 as it provides better hooks.
>>
>> One of those hooks were the @compact attribute. Very helpful when working
>> with DL lists. And used in at least one microformat. But not allowed in HTML
>> 5.
>
>
> Reference: http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo

First of all HTML4 deprecates the 'compact' attribute, so it seems
like a bad idea to use that attribute even in HTML4. Second, this
seems like a violation of the semantic meaning of the 'compact'
attribute. According to HTML4 it means that the rendering should be
more compact. However xoxo interprets it as hiding the rendering
entirely.

> Where is the HTML 5 hook improvement in this case?

The 'hidden' attribute seems to fit the need here. In fact, that seems
like a better fit than the 'compact' attribute from HTML4.

/ Jonas
Received on Thursday, 10 September 2009 19:27:01 UTC

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