W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > September 2009

Re: More on SVG within HTML pages

From: Shelley Powers <shelleyp@burningbird.net>
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 12:13:31 -0500
Message-ID: <4AA690BB.2030104@burningbird.net>
To: Boris Zbarsky <bzbarsky@MIT.EDU>
CC: public-html@w3.org
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
> Shelley Powers wrote:
>> I can understand if a page they need access to is broken in the new 
>> browser, but chances are they also report the problem to the web site. 
>
> No, actually chances are they don't.
>
>> Or they use multiple browsers, new and old. I currently use about 7 
>> different browsers myself.
>
> You're not a typical user.  Honestly, you're not.  Neither is anyone 
> else on this list.

But I'm not sure that a typical user will use a new HTML5 enabled 
browser right out of the box, either. The typical user is not an early 
adopter.

>
>> Do you have citations that you can give that most uses when faced 
>> with one broken page after using a new browser, assume the browser is 
>> broken and never come back to it?
>
> I didn't say never.  I said low chance.
>
> Unfortunately, I do not have data that I can make public here....
>
> That said, I don't think we're the only implementor to have had this 
> experience; you could of course assume that we're all lying about it 
> if you want.
>

I didn't say "lying", but too often decisions have been made based on 
statements, and we really don't have the data to back up the statements.

I think it's a dangerous precedent to get into removing features just 
because _someone_ might screw up with them.

>> If it doesn't do well for all of your needs, true. But if I'm trying 
>> a new browser, and most pages work fine, and only one is broken, I 
>> give the browser a benefit of a doubt.
>
> You're not a typical user.  This should be engraved in flaming letters 
> on the inside of your eyelids for all those cases when the discussion 
> is about how users react.
>
>> Again, though, most people who try a brand new browser are not the 
>> type to be dissuaded from one broken page. The people who are, are 
>> the ones still using IE6 and Netscape 4.
>
> There are also such people, yes.  And then there are such people who 
> have the browser changed for them by a friend and then complain that 
> it doesn't work and want it changed back.

Sure, in which case they weren't ready to adopt a new browser in the 
first place.

>
>> And this is getting off topic again. This thread is about SVG and how 
>> to gracefully handle the namespaced elements that are validly in the 
>> SVG.]
>
> Sure; I just want us to be clear on why one of the proposed ways of 
> doing such handling (making various malformed SVG constructs make the 
> rest of the webpage disappear) is not acceptable.
>
> -Boris
>
Other than reaching out, and slapping a person across the face, we can't 
stop people from making copy and paste errors. If people leave the 
important bits of SVG out of the copy and paste they will know it 
immediately.



Shelley
Received on Tuesday, 8 September 2009 17:14:18 UTC

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