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Re: ISSUE-48: UA-q-quotes - suggest closing on 2009-09-03

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:56:34 +0200
Message-ID: <4A9FE732.50709@xn--mlform-iua.no>
To: Martin Kliehm <martin.kliehm@namics.com>
CC: HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>
Martin Kliehm On 09-09-03 17.18:

> filed two bug reports as promised.
> 
> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7490 (q element)
> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7491 (blockquote)


> Martin Kliehm wrote:
>> Maciej Stachowiak wrote:


>>> The rendering section now requires that user agents add 
>>> quotes to Q elements:


>> a) The current draft 
>> (http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#the-q-element) says:
>>
>> Quotation punctuation (such as quotation marks) must not appear 
>> immediately before, after, or inside q elements; they will be inserted 
>> into the rendering by the user agent.
>>
>> I think this could be phrased less ambiguous along the line of this:

ambiguous = open to or having several possible meanings or 
interpretations; [1]

I would say a change from MUST to SHOULD is not related to ambiguity.

>> Authors SHOULD not use quotation punctuation (such as quotation marks) 
>> immediately before, after, or inside q elements, because user agents 
>> MUST insert them into the rendering, unless the default rendering is 
>> overridden by CSS.

Does this mean that authors *may* add quotation punctuation, 
provided they disable the automatic quoting via CSS? If so, then I 
support this change.

I will note that I have the same problem with <dialog> and also 
with <dl>: May one do  <dt>Him:</dt> ? Or should one do <dt>Him</dt>?

I think the logical answer for DL/DIALOG is that both should be 
possible, and thus ditto for <q>.


>> b) The current draft 
>> (http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#the-blockquote-element ) 
>> doesn't have any recommendations regarding the blockquote element. I'd 
>> suggest:
>>
>> [...] Content inside a blockquote must be quoted from another source, 
>> whose address, if it has one, should be cited in the cite attribute. 
>> [NEW]User agents MUST NOT insert quotation punctuation (such as 
>> quotation marks) into the rendering.[/NEW]

I would suggest adding

	unless the default rendering is overridden by CSS

so as to make it more congruent with what you said about <q>.

>> I'd appreciate if any people who are more experienced than me would 
>> shape this text into something that is suited to go into a draft. When 
>> the current draft is reflecting some wording to that effect I wouldn't 
>> object closing Issue-48, but I think amending is necessary before that 
>> can be done.


[1] http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ambiguous?db=dictionary
-- 
leif halvard silli
Received on Thursday, 3 September 2009 15:57:16 UTC

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