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Re: <meter> and <progress> (was RE: Implementor feedback on new elements in HTML5)

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:25:40 +0200
Message-ID: <4A9E7254.4040507@xn--mlform-iua.no>
To: Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@ltgt.net>
CC: HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>
Thomas Broyer On 09-09-02 10.50:

> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
>> Does it has to "look like a meter"? I am little uncertain whether <meter>
>> represent a "super simple graphs" or what ...
> 
> No (my own opinion); meter marks up a value within a range of accepted
> values, however it is rendered. Though those "super simple graphs" are
> good candidates to use <meter> instead of a series a <div>s and
> <spans> and sometime <img>s, whereas authors probably won't update
> their "text only" (not marked-up) numbers to use a <meter> as they
> won't feel the need (particularly if some UAs start replacing their
> text with a "super simple graph"!)

Good point - they probably won't do that if that is what (always) 
happens.

>>>> A fine point is that if one uses it to say e.g. <meter>50 degrees
>>>> Celsius</meter>, without indicating a temperature range, then it
>>>> represent
>>>> wrong use - many will get that wrong, probably.
>>>>
>>>> A potential good effect is that many values might get easier to grasp if
>>>> they are delivered as a meter. For instance, the phrase "50 degrees
>>>> Celsius"
>>>> could get a red color, to indicate that it is hot.
>>> Ooh, temperature is an interesting use.
>> So, if you accept that usecase description, then I think we can conclude
>> that the words in a tag cloud represent meters - typically the font-size of
>> each word represents the relative "hotness" of each tag.
> 
> No, because the tag itself isn't "the relative hotness". If the tag
> were preceeded/followed by some "hotness" indication (other than how
> it is rendered re. font-size and/or fore-color "brightness"), then
> <meter> would be suitable to represent this information.


Ah, get it. But the size of the tag is still - and regardless - a 
meter for how hot the tag is. And a blind user will not have 
access to this hotness gauge unless it is marked up as a gauge, 
somehow.

Thus I think that <meter> should be designed so that it would be 
suitable for "hotness tags". I.e. there should be an option for 
whether to display a meter or not, and so on.

 
> (as said by Jonas, the temperature use case doesn't comply with
> <meter>'s requirements, unless in a particular context the author
> defines a lower and upper bound; for example, when listing current
> temperatures of several cities, <meter> could be used with the lower,
> resp. higher, bound being the lowest, resp. highest, current measured
> temperature; to make it easier to compare city temperatures and for
> example immediately if where you live will be hotter than where your
> parents live)


Not that one should force <meter> on things. But what is the 
difference from the hotness tags? The hotness of the tags varies 
over time - may be they only represent the last month's hotness.

Likewise, if a newspaper display the summer temperature using an 
image of a thermometer, then it will usually only display the 
temperature ranges that are expectable for that period - and over 
all, on earth, for human beings.

What is hot and what is cold varies through the year - at least 
where I live.
-- 
leif halvard silli
Received on Wednesday, 2 September 2009 13:26:26 GMT

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