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Re: http content type authoritative for object data?

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:44:04 +0100
To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
Cc: Joe D Williams <joedwil@earthlink.net>, Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc>, Boris Zbarsky <bzbarsky@mit.edu>, public-html@w3.org
Message-ID: <20091213224404558283.d715bf08@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Julian Reschke, Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:40:54 +0100:
> Joe D Williams wrote:
	[ Youtube <object> example: ]
>> <object style="height: 344px; width: 425px" >
>> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vwI3tL2yc6k">
>> <param name="allowFullScreen" value="true">
>> <param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always">
>> <fallback html>
>> </object>
>>
>> tells the UA absolutely nothing about what it might be working with.
>> Here, @type is missing and no @data so the UA has nothing to 
>> determine what processing to use. [...]
> 
> You are right.
> 
> I saw the URI and somehow ignored the fact that it appears in a 
> param, not as object/@data.

What's the point in making Youtube invalid, as HTML 5 currently does?  
Youtube is, in this regard, valid HTML 4. And, for Flash, Adobe itself 
makes no requirement to use whether @data or @type either. [1] 

I agree that it would have made sense if _Youtube_ and _Adobe_ had 
formulated requirements which were in tune with what HTML 5 now 
requires. For example, this would have made the above code work in 
Firefox 3.5.  May be user agents would have supported <object> earlier 
and better if @data and/or @type had been a requirement - _for Adobe_ 
and everyone else that specify a way to use <object> for embedding a 
resource. 

But I still don't understand why every <object> should be required to 
have either a @type or a @data. Because, not every <object> out there 
is used for embedding resource. (Except in the same sense as <figure> 
is an element for embedding.) And thus it should not, in those cases, 
need whether a MIME header, @type or @data.

<object> in HTML 4 can - like the currently proposed <figure> - be used 
for "inline embedding". And e.g.  Microformats.org discussed if OBJECT 
shoudl be used for "embedding" data/time information. [2] This way of 
using <object> does not make use of @data/@type and would thus become 
invalid. 

Thus I would suggest to separate the concerns: When <object> is used 
for embedding a resource, then @data and/or @type should be required. 
But other use of <object> should not have such requirements.

[1] http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/127/tn_12701.html#required
[2] 
http://microformats.org/wiki/abbr-datetime-pattern#.3Cobject.3E_element_to_represent_dates
-- 
leif halvard silli
Received on Sunday, 13 December 2009 21:44:40 UTC

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