W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > November 2008

Re: Text presentation of image maps with <object> (detailed review of Semantics)

From: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 06:50:46 +0000 (UTC)
To: Simon Pieters <simonp@opera.com>
Cc: public-html <public-html@w3.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0811260646420.17414@hixie.dreamhostps.com>

On Thu, 5 Jun 2008, Simon Pieters wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 11:33:09 +0200, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch> wrote:
> > On Wed, 8 Aug 2007, Simon Pieters wrote:
> > > 
> > > The spec says about image maps:
> > > 
> > >    If the user agent intends to show the text that the img or input
> > >    element represents, then it must use the following steps.
> > > 
> > >    Note: In user agents that do not support images, or that have images
> > >    disabled, object elements cannot represent images, and thus this
> > >    section never applies (the fallback content is shown instead). The
> > >    following steps therefore only apply to img and input elements.
> > > 
> > > I think it should apply when an <object> doesn't represent an image 
> > > (perhaps regardless of what else it represents instead). Otherwise 
> > > using image maps together with <object> is inherently inaccessible 
> > > when images are disabled (unless the author jumps through hoops to 
> > > duplicate the links as both <area> and <a> inside the object, which 
> > > I don't think is realistic or particularly elegant).
> > 
> > The problem is that I don't understand how it would work. I can 
> > understand an image's alt text being displayed as a link and making 
> > that link bring up a window with a further list of links,
> 
> Why would you bring up a window rather than just show the list of links 
> directly on the page?

Well you wouldn't want to show the links all the time, that would 
interfere with the flow of text. (What if, e.g., the image is in a 
sentence?)


> > but what do you do when the object includes a form, a plugin, a video, 
> > and a dozen other links?
> 
> Show them in addition to the links defined by <area> elements?

I don't understand how that would work. How would you trigger the <object> 
to show the list of <area>s?

I don't understand how the rendering would work (e.g. with CSS) if the 
<area>s were inline somewhere. (Where?)


> > Inserting text into the page is a non-starter (it would break the 
> > intended rendering in author-uncontrolled ways).
> 
> Generally, authors only care about the intended rendering when images 
> are enabled.

I think that's an over-generalisation.


> > What else could you do?
> 
> Hmm. Make usemap not work with <object> at all? :-) Or would dropping 
> support for it break too much Web content?

I don't really see how it would be better than what we have now, where the 
author, if using <object>, can provide the fallback in a better way than 
<area> anyway.

-- 
Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Received on Wednesday, 26 November 2008 06:51:22 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Wednesday, 9 May 2012 00:16:27 GMT