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Re: headers= and rowgroup

From: Leif Halvard Silli <lhs@malform.no>
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:39:58 +0200
Message-ID: <a0291f0cf14fd559b93d0b42886212c3@10013.local>
To: "Anne van Kesteren" <annevk@opera.com>
Cc: "HTML WG" <public-html@w3.org>

On 2007-09-12 16:53:27 +0200 "Anne van Kesteren" <annevk@opera.com>
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:39:50 +0200, Leif Halvard Silli
>> Please quote. I don't see anything that can be interpreted like that.
>
> I quoted the definition of rowgroup before.

Irrelvant and out of context. 

The context: Which text it is that allow you to say that @HEADERS is augmentive in HTML4. Please quote. I don't see anything that can be interpreted like that.

>>> I'm not sure what the meaning of many features in HTML4 is when used
>>> in non-typical ways. The specification is not really useful.
>>
>> It is not really useful to not want to make sense of it. And also,
>> the HTML5 draft does not say that rowgroup cannot be applied to
>> THEAD/TFOOT.  So what would the improvement be?
>
> The HTML5 algorithm is not yet good enough, 
> but at least it's clear what it implies.

THe algorithm is in section 3.15.11. While the exact scope value 'rowgroup' is explained in section 3.15.10.

HTML4: [rowgroup] the rest of the row group that contains it.
HTML5: [rowgroup] the remaining cells in the row group. 

If these texts imply anything about direction, then at least they imply the same thing.

>> The HTML5 draft isn't anymore spesific than HTML4 about which
>> direction scope="rowgroup" and scope="colgroup" goes. [...]
>>
>>>        If [TH] is in the row group state … and assign the header
>>>        cell to any data cells anchored at slots with coordinates
>>>        … where headerx ≤ datax ≤ xmax and headery
>>>        ≤ datay < groupy+height
>>
>> I am not sure if have got this part of the algorithm 100% correcty,
>> but my understanding is that the phrase «headerx ≤ datax ≤
>> xmax» tells which _direction_ a header in «the row group state»
>> has - namely horisontal direction.
>
> You completely read over the bit where it talks about "height" and
> "headery" for some reason.

Below I present some TBODY-s with 4 cells in each. The «RGR» text represents a header cell.  Please show me, by subtituting the "_" with an "S", the effect which the SCOPE="rowgroup" is causing - according to your reading of the HTML5 draft and HTML4:

	Showing <TH colspan=0 scope=rowgroup>RGR</TH>
HTML4:        HTML5:
        RGR          RGR
        _ _          _ _

	Showing <TH rowspan=0 scope=rowgroup>RG</TH>
HTML4:        HTML5:                    
        R _            R _
        G _            G _ 

	Showing <TH rowspan=1 scope=rowgroup>R</TH>
HTML4:        HTML5:                    
        R _            R _
        _ _            _ _

	Showing <TH colspan=1 scope=rowgroup>R</TH>
HTML4:        HTML5:                    
        R _            R _
        _ _            _ _


>> Why has that change been drafted?
>
> HTML5 is written from scratch. (As in, it's not HTML4 + changes. And
> as such it may contain inconsistencies with HTML4 that are either
> desirable or not.)

So, you don't know the asnwer then, Ok.

>> «rowgroup simply works»? Well, it «it simply works» in the Table
>> Inspector. I hope we can make into a tool we can trust.
>
> I'm not sure that's possible for HTML4 given the lack of a proper
> specification. It's not entirely clear to me what you mean with
> "trust" either.   The tool is open source and everyone can simply fork
> their own version.

«trust» as in «bug free».
-- 
leif halvard silli
Received on Wednesday, 12 September 2007 19:40:31 GMT

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