- From: Tina Holmboe <tina@greytower.co.uk>
- Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 17:35:05 +0200
- To: Murray Maloney <murray@muzmo.com>
- Cc: Tina Holmboe <tina@greytower.co.uk>, www-html@w3.org, public-html@w3.org
On Sat, May 05, 2007 at 09:10:19AM -0400, Murray Maloney wrote: > Dear Tina (and everyone else who doesn't quite get this...), All right. Let's try this one more time? > The semantics* of <i> is emphasise with italic typeface. > The semantics* of <em> is emphasise, probably with italics The I-element was introduced in HTML 2.0, and defined as follows: "The <I> element indicates italic text." This was reconfirmed in HTML 3.2, and in addition the element was moved from the "Typographic Elements" section and into "Font style". In HTML 4.0 and 4.01 the same is true: the definition of <i> remain the same. It is worth noting that in all three DTDs the I-element is firmly placed in the %font entity. We can conclude that it was and is meant to /change the font style to italics/. There is, for all the arguments tossed at it, no semantic interpretation defined /anywhere/. The EM-element, however, is different. It too was introduced in HTML 2.0 under the section "Idiomatic Elements", and defined as "The <EM> element indicates an emphasized phrase ... " This definition was reconfirmed in HTML 3.2 - with the modifier "basic" added to "emphasis" - and again in HTML 4.0 and 4.01. Again we can conclude something regarding this element: it is meant to convey /meaning/, not style, despite the way it is commonly rendered in a graphical UA. All of this has, in the end, only one important lesson to teach: IF a claim is made that authors don't care about semantic HTML - and evidence overwhelmingly suggest that they did in the past not give a damn - then it is both illogical and silly to claim that they have somehow magically used <i> in a semantic fashion. If, on the other hand, you claim authors HAVE cared about semantics, then removing the I-element is the only logical way to go, as it is /by definition/ a font-style element and /nothing else/. We can discuss this until we turn a pretty smurf blue, but the FACT remain: the I-element is today, and has always been, defined as a /stylistic/ element, predictably used /exactly/ that way by authors in the past - and today. I spend enough time analyzing crap markup to make THAT statement with confidence. > Additional semantics may be layered upon these elements by employing CLASS > attribute values. Such semantics may be interpreted by CSS or XSL Not in HTML, no. -- - Tina Holmboe Greytower Technologies (UK) Ltd. tina@greytower.co.uk http://www.greytower.co.uk +46 708 557 905
Received on Saturday, 5 May 2007 15:35:22 UTC