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Re: ToolTips: bug or feature?

From: Charles McCathieNevile <chaals@opera.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:45:24 +0200
To: "Maciej Stachowiak" <mjs@apple.com>
Cc: "Jon Barnett" <jonbarnett@gmail.com>, "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>, "Lachlan Hunt" <lachlan.hunt@lachy.id.au>, public-html@w3.org, w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
Message-ID: <op.twcedylrwxe0ny@widsith.local>

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:17:23 +0200, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>  
wrote:

> On Jul 31, 2007, at 1:30 AM, Charles McCathieNevile wrote:
>
>>
>>> Instead, I suggest precisely the opposite.  HTML 5 should explicitly
>>> forbid @alt from being displayed as a tooltip*.  Also, @alt SHOULD not
>>> be presented to the user in any way by default when an image is being
>>> displayed - in the same manner that a UA doesn't display the contents
>>> of <object> if the media is being displayed.  Any other behavior
>>> encourages misuse of alternate content by encouraging authors to use
>>> @alt as supplemental, not alternate, content.
>>
>> I agree that we should say 'user agents SHOULD NOT present alt and  
>> title in a way that makes it impossible to distinguish them'. Anything  
>> more is, I think, overly restrictive (and we would ignore it in  
>> practice). Anything less is avoiding the problem.
>
> I think the spec should suggest that title is meant to be displayed  
> along with the content, while alt is meant to be an alternative and  
> should not be presented by default if the content for which it is an  
> alternative is being presented, much as <object> fallback content is not  
> presented when the primary <object> contents are.
>
> Just saying alt and title shouldn't be presented in ways that are  
> indistinguishable doesn't clarify to authors how they are different, or  
> to UA vendors how the presentations should differ. Making one a pink  
> tooltip and the other a green tooltip would not solve most of the  
> problems Ian raised, for instance. Intended addition/enhancement vs.  
> intended replacement is a pretty clear distinction that does not  
> overconstrain details of the presentation.

Indeed.

Last I looked at the section of the spec, and also in the proposal I made  
to deal with alt/title/longdesc, I think that it already talked about the  
differences - but in any case we should not forget these points.

cheers

Chaals

-- 
   Charles McCathieNevile, Opera Software: Standards Group
   hablo español  -  je parle français  -  jeg lærer norsk
chaals@opera.com    Catch up: Speed Dial   http://opera.com
Received on Tuesday, 31 July 2007 18:46:43 GMT

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