W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > July 2007

Re: 3.15 Tabular Data Review

From: Robert Burns <rob@robburns.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:13:18 -0500
Message-Id: <68A447D9-28D4-4F61-BD8A-6BF31D03756C@robburns.com>
Cc: "Debi Orton" <oradnio@gmail.com>, public-html@w3.org
To: Simon Pieters <simonp@opera.com>

On Jul 16, 2007, at 7:21 AM, Simon Pieters wrote:

> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:40:59 +0200, Debi Orton <oradnio@gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>> 3.15.2 The caption Element
>> "The <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#caption0>caption element  
>> represents the title of the <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/ 
>> #table>table that is its parent, if it has a parent and that is a  
>> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#table>table element."
>> What other legitimate usage is there for the caption element?  I  
>> know of none, although this verbiage makes it appear as if there  
>> are others.  Can we simplify it?
> The paragraph doesn't imply that there are other useages for the  
> caption element. It just defines what it means when it is used  
> correctly.

I wonder if this wording is a vestige of considering <caption> for  
<figure> elements (apparently rejected for <legend> because of some  
unspecified parsing issues). The document does not always use such  
precise language. I'm not sure if it should get so wordy. It is  
already conveyed by the draft that a caption used in an invalid  
context doesn't mean anything.

>> [...]
>> 3.15.5 The tbody Element
>> Same general comments as the other sections.
>> Regarding:
>> " The rows attribute must return an <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ 
>> html5/#htmlcollection0>HTMLCollection rooted at the element, whose  
>> filter matches only <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#tr>tr  
>> elements that are children of the element."
>> Is "rows" a new attribute or is this a typo for rowspan?
> Neither. It is a DOM attribute.

Perhaps we need to use different styling for DOM attributes and  
content attributes when  used in the prose of the draft.

>> [...]
>> 3.15.7 The tfoot Element
>> Same general comments…
>> "As a child of a <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#table>table  
>> element, after any <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/ 
>> #caption0>caption, <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/ 
>> #colgroup>colgroup, <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/ 
>> #thead0>thead, <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#tbody>tbody, and  
>> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#tr>tr elements, but only if  
>> there are no other <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#tfoot0>tfoot  
>> elements that are children of the <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/ 
>> #table>table element."
>> This entry makes it appear as if you are intending that the  
>> sequence of elements within the table model is intended to be  
>> different from that of HTML 4.01.  Again, if that's the case, it  
>> will require further explanation.
> It is the case. How is it not clear? Could you propose some text  
> you would want included?

I'm not sure if this is what Debi was referring to, but I find the  
phrase "but only if there are no other tfoot elements that are  
children of the table element.' that is often used to be needlessly  
wordy and awkward. Would the same meaning be conveyed by saying that  
"one tfoot may be the child of a table element after any caption,  
colgroup, and thead elements and either: 1) before any tbody and tr  
elements or 2) after all of the tbody elements too"

The difference from HTML 4.01 might best be handled in a separate  
differences section. Though it might be worth integrating that into  
this chapter too.

>> 3.15.8 The tr Element
>> Same general comments…
>> " The rowIndex element must, if the element has a parent <http:// 
>> www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#table>table element, or a parent <http:// 
>> www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#tbody>tbody, <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ 
>> html5/#thead0>thead, or <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/ 
>> #tfoot0>tfoot element and a grandparent <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ 
>> html5/#table>table element, return the index of the <http:// 
>> www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#tr>tr element in that <http://www.w3.org/ 
>> html/wg/html5/#table>table element's <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ 
>> html5/#rows>rows collection. If there is no such <http:// 
>> www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#table>table element, then the attribute  
>> must return 0."
>> I am not familiar with "the rowIndex element."  Is this something  
>> new, and if so, why is the "I" capitalized?
> It is a typo. Should say "the rowIndex attribute". This is a DOM  
> attribute.

Debi, "rowIndex" represents a common camel case convention to make  
reading word breaks easier to read in concatenated  phrases like  
this. For DOM and XML parts of HTML5 (not the text/html  
serialization) the case will matter. In HTML (text/html  
serialization) HTML5, the case will not matter.

If this is a typo, it is the entire paragraph that is a typo. The  
draft currently has the following two paragraphs:

The rowIndex element must, if the element has a parent table element,  
or a parent tbody, thead, or tfoot element and a grandparent table  
element, return the index of the tr element in that table element's  
rows collection. If there is no such table element, then the  
attribute must return 0.

The rowIndex DOM attribute must, if the element has a parent table,  
tbody, thead, or tfoot element, return the index of the tr element in  
the parent element's rows collection (for tables, that's the rows  
collection; for table sections, that's the rows collection). If there  
is no such parent element, then the attribute must return 0.


>> 3.15.10 The th Element
>> Same general comments …
>> I would like to see the id attribute restored to the th element.
> The id attribute is a global attribute.

Was this perhaps referring to @scope being removed from <td>. That's  
an issue I've been curious about. Is that to ensure authors only use  
<th> cells for headers. IIRC the HTML4.01 recommendation was to use a  
<td> cell if the cell was both a header and a data cell.

Take care,
Received on Tuesday, 17 July 2007 22:13:32 UTC

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