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Re: 3.15 Tabular Data Review

From: Simon Pieters <simonp@opera.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:21:24 +0200
To: "Debi Orton" <oradnio@gmail.com>, public-html@w3.org
Message-ID: <op.tvj4khnaidj3kv@hp-a0a83fcd39d2>

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:40:59 +0200, Debi Orton <oradnio@gmail.com> wrote:

> 3.15 Tabular Data
> GENERAL COMMENTS:  I suggest that there needs to be more explanation of  
> the use of each of the elements within the table model, including simple  
> examples.  I also suggest for each of the elements within the table  
> model that there be an explicit indication of whether these elements  
> require a closing tag, as the HTML 4.01 specification indicated that  
> several (e.g., thead, tfoot, tbody) did NOT require a closing tag.

Optionalness of tags is specific to the HTML syntax and is covered in that  
section (see #optional).

> I am also disappointed that attributes particularly useful to the users  
> of screen reading software are not included, specifically the id  
> attribute of the th element and the headers attribute of the td  
> element.  For complex or dense tables, these are almost required for  
> screen reader users to understand the context of individual table  
> cells.  I have seen arguments in the list that the scope attribute can  
> supply the same information, but that isn't currently true and I don't  
> know how the scope attribute can reliably be used to provide the same  
> context for screen reader users that is now provided by using the id  
> attribute of the th element in concert with the headers attribute of the  
> td element.

This is an open issue.

> [...]
> I suggest moving the discussion of the table model to the top of this  
> section to provide more context for subsequent discussions.  I'm also  
> not sure why the DOM definitions of each of the table-related elements  
> is written up here. I didn't see any of the other sections treated this  
> way.

Other sections are treated this way. Each element has a DOM interface, and  
it's attributes are defined in the same section. (See e.g. #the-base.)

> 3.15.2 The caption Element
> "The <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#caption0>caption element  
> represents the title of the  
> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#table>table that is its parent, if it  
> has a parent and that is a <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#table>table  
> element."
> What other legitimate usage is there for the caption element?  I know of  
> none, although this verbiage makes it appear as if there are others.   
> Can we simplify it?

The paragraph doesn't imply that there are other useages for the caption  
element. It just defines what it means when it is used correctly.

> [...]
> 3.15.5 The tbody Element
> Same general comments as the other sections.
> Regarding:
> " The rows attribute must return an  
> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#htmlcollection0>HTMLCollection rooted  
> at the element, whose filter matches only  
> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#tr>tr elements that are children of  
> the element."
> Is "rows" a new attribute or is this a typo for rowspan?

Neither. It is a DOM attribute.

> [...]
> 3.15.7 The tfoot Element
> Same general comments…
> "As a child of a <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#table>table element,  
> after any <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#caption0>caption,  
> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#colgroup>colgroup,  
> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#thead0>thead,  
> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#tbody>tbody, and  
> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#tr>tr elements, but only if there are  
> no other <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#tfoot0>tfoot elements that  
> are children of the <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#table>table  
> element."
> This entry makes it appear as if you are intending that the sequence of  
> elements within the table model is intended to be different from that of  
> HTML 4.01.  Again, if that's the case, it will require further  
> explanation.

It is the case. How is it not clear? Could you propose some text you would  
want included?

> 3.15.8 The tr Element
> Same general comments…
> " The rowIndex element must, if the element has a parent  
> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#table>table element, or a parent  
> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#tbody>tbody,  
> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#thead0>thead, or  
> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#tfoot0>tfoot element and a grandparent  
> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#table>table element, return the index  
> of the <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#tr>tr element in that  
> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#table>table element's  
> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#rows>rows collection. If there is no  
> such <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#table>table element, then the  
> attribute must return 0."
> I am not familiar with "the rowIndex element."  Is this something new,  
> and if so, why is the "I" capitalized?

It is a typo. Should say "the rowIndex attribute". This is a DOM attribute.

> I am not familiar with the cells attribute.  What is it and how is it  
> used?

This is also a DOM attribute.

> 3.15.9 The td Element
> Same general comments…
> I would like to see the headers attribute restored to the td element.
> 3.15.10 The th Element
> Same general comments …
> I would like to see the id attribute restored to the th element.

The id attribute is a global attribute.

> [...]

Simon Pieters
Opera Software
Received on Monday, 16 July 2007 12:21:37 UTC

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