- From: Philip Taylor <philip@zaynar.demon.co.uk>
- Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:06:15 +0100
- To: Robert Burns <rob@robburns.com>
- CC: "public-html@w3.org WG" <public-html@w3.org>
Robert Burns wrote: > On Aug 31, 2007, at 7:50 AM, Dean Edridge wrote: >> How much longer do we need to go on pretending that XHTML can be sent >> as text/html Dan? This is ridiculous. Hasn't the W3C learnt it's >> lesson with XHTML's failure over the last 8 years. >> >> Exactly who benefits from the myth of XHTML being able to be sent as >> text/html? Not you, me, the W3c or anyone, and certainly not XHTML it >> self. > > I"m not sure why you call it a myth. I'm sure we can find countless > sites that serve valid XHTML files as text/html. This discussion keeps > popping up, but so far no one has been able to articulate what the > dangers are in doing so. There's a bigger countless number that serve invalid XHTML files as text/html, and they are often invalid (in part) directly because of confusion between XML syntax and HTML syntax. I believe that that confusion is a real danger: XHTML-as-text/html has harder syntax than HTML, since you have to understand XML as well as HTML-as-misunderstood-by-browsers, so people get it wrong more often; and encouraging people to use the harder syntax will result in more errors and less happiness among those who follow the advice. (I think this encouragement issue is independent of DanC's proposal to permit the (discouraged) practice, though.) Of the top 200 sites in Alexa's list (which I assume means there is a strong bias towards professionally-designed sites), looking at the front page of each (which I assume is more likely to have been checked with a validator than other less-prominent pages): 67 looked like they were using XHTML (they contained "DTD XHTML 1." somewhere); 51 were ill-formed XML (or, specifically, causing parse errors in libxml). I looked in more detail at the first half, grouping by the first reported error - see below for the list. Unencoded ampersands in non-<script> contexts are errors in HTML too, but I think most of the other issues are fine in HTML, and it looks like many are caused by attempting to use HTML syntax in the XHTML document. Of the pages without parse errors, most were valid - the only exceptions were http://www.msn.com (duplicate ID value) and sort of http://www.bbc.co.uk (sends invalid HTML4 to the validator, but sends valid XHTML1 to me - is that location-based?). (I have no idea how many would actually work as application/xhtml+xml, given the differences in the DOM and document.write and everything else.) The lack of pages which are well-formed but invalid may suggest that few people are actually interested in well-formedness - some are just interested in validity, and fix their well-formedness errors as an incidental detail. Those people would get the same benefit from using HTML and an HTML validator instead. Unencoded ampersands: * http://www.uol.com.br: if(op!=0) parent.top.location = 'http://click.uol.com.br/?rf=hu-drop'+form_name_seed+'&u=http://'+op; * http://cn.yahoo.com/: <a href="http://cn.yahoo.com/go.php?homepage=new&resolution=800by600">...</a> * http://www.163.com: <a href="http://shanda.allyes.com/main/adfclick?db=shanda&bid=535,10258,10960&cid=0,0,0&sid=31107&advid=312&camid=575&show=ignore&url=http://163.cmfu.com/">...</a> * http://www.seznam.cz: <embed src="http://1.im.cz/ad/1/43043/475459/598404_0.swf?clickthru1=http%3A//ad.seznam.cz/clickthru%3FspotId%3D682213%26destination%3Dhttp%253A//sz.aukro.cz/17570_cyklistika.html%253Forder%253Dbd%2526view%253Dgtext&pad&clickthru2=http%3A//ad.seznam.cz/clickthru%3FspotId%3D682213%26seqNo%3D1%26destination%3Dhttp%253A//sz.aukro.cz/special_listing.php%253Ftype%253Dfrom1&pad&clickthru3=http%3A//ad.seznam.cz/clickthru%3FspotId%3D682213%26seqNo%3D2%26destination%3Dhttp%253A//sz.aukro.cz/&pad&clickthru4=http%3A//ad.seznam.cz/clickthru%3FspotId%3D682213%26seqNo%3D3%26destination%3Dhttp%253A//sz.aukro.cz/new_user.php&pad&clickthru5=http%3A//ad.seznam.cz/clickthru%3FspotId%3D682213%26seqNo%3D4%26destination%3Dhttp%253A//sz.aukro.cz/8495_mobilni_telefony.html&pad&clickTarget=_top" quality="high" width="400" height="100" allowScriptAccess="always" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"></embed> * http://www.digg.com: ...{"name":"World & Business","ctitle":"world_business",... * http://www.globo.com: if (array != null && array.length > 0) * http://www.livedoor.com: <script language="javascript" type="text/javascript" src="http://click.adv.livedoor.com/A-affiliate2/distribute?keyword=hs9000731&isJS=true&encoding=utf-8"></script> * http://www.facebook.com/common/browser.php: Env={method:"GET",dev:0,start:(new Date( )).getTime(),cache:(((typeof(cc)!="undefined")&&cc.hit)||0),ps_limit:5,ps_ratio:4,pkgv:0}; * http://www.adobe.com: <a href="/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash&promoid=BIOW" class="noHover"> Other unencoded characters: * http://www.livejournal.com: for (var i = 0; i < site_k.length; i++) { * http://www.xunlei.com: for(var i = 0; i < productName.length && random > temp; i++) { * http://www.xanga.com: document.write('<scr' + 'ipt src="' + adserver + allAdTags + ad1 + ad2 + ad3 + '?" type="text/javascript">'); document.write('</scr' + 'ipt>'); * http://www.wretch.cc: document.write("<img style=\"display:none;\" width=1 height=1 src=http://bcw1.mining.vip.tp2.yahoo.com/b?s=2022137079&make=yahoo&type=wretch&t="+random_num+">"); Unclosed tags: * http://www.rapidshare.com: <img src="http://images.rapidshare.com/img/rslogo.jpg"> * http://www.sina.com.cn: <meta name="stencil" content="PGLS000022"> * http://www.dailymotion.com/gb: <img src="/images/creative_user_logo.gif"> * http://www.aol.com: <link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="AOL Top Stories" href="http://xml.web.aol.com/aolportal/dynamiclead.xml"> * http://www.hi5.com: <link href="http://images.hi5.com/images/favicon.ico" type=image/x-icon rel="shortcut icon"> * http://www.taobao.com: <input name="f" value="D9_5_1" type="hidden"> * http://www.tom.com: <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=gb2312"> Other errors: * http://www.deviantart.com: <![if ! lt IE 5.5]> * http://www.live.com: <html xmlns:web xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" lang="en" xml:lang="en" class="liveApp la_en lo_gb"> * http://www.eastmoney.com: <meta name=keywords content="..." /> -- Philip Taylor philip@zaynar.demon.co.uk
Received on Friday, 31 August 2007 20:06:27 UTC