W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > August 2007

RE: Ruby in HTML

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:22:32 +0100
To: "'Karl Dubost'" <karl@w3.org>, "'HTML WG'" <public-html@w3.org>
Cc: "'Richard Ishida'" <rishida@w3.org>, <michelsu@microsoft.com>, "'Chris Wilson'" <Chris.Wilson@microsoft.com>, <piro@p.club.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <008c01c7ea50$6c4f0630$6701a8c0@rishida>

I'm not sure of the best way to proceed.  It sounds like some improvements
need to be made to the spec, (although I wonder whether they are not just
the same kinds of change that are being worked on the HTML 4.01 spec by
HTML5).  For that to happen, we need more specific pointers to what needs to
be improved. In particular, we need to be clear whether needed improvements
relate to the ruby markup model described in the ruby annotation spec, or
whether they are needed to specify expected behaviour in HTML specifically.

The next question is, should we 
A. copy the ruby annotation spec into the HTML5 spec and improve it there?
B. produce a new version of the ruby annotation spec?
C. keep the ruby annotation spec separate, but add any needed rules to the
HTML5 spec to clarify ambiguities for an HTML context.

Much will depend on the nature of the improvements that need to be made.
Note that the ruby annotation spec is not intended to be HTML-specific.

It would be good to keep the ruby spec separate so that it can be referenced
by other specs such as ITS.

Btw, if we do make substantive changes to the way the ruby spec works, I'd
like to see three levels of conformance rather than just the current two.
Ie. Rather than simple ruby / complex ruby, I'd like to see simple ruby /
multiple ruby / complex-table-like positioning for ruby.

I think the starting point, however, is for someone to document clearly the
needed improvements to the current ruby annotation spec, by pointing to the
text of the spec where things need to be changed or added.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karl Dubost [mailto:karl@w3.org] 
> Sent: 15 August 2007 02:53
> * I18N
> Richard Ishida,
> Do you have input on how to achieve Ruby in HTML?
> I have not cc: i18n to avoid too many cross-postings and lost threads
> * Internet Explorer
> Chris Wilson,
> Do you know who was/is in charge of Ruby implementation in Internet  
> Explorer?
> Michel Suignard maybe?
> His/her feedback would be welcome for having a better specification.
> * Mozilla
> SHIMODA-san, do you still work on Ruby for Mozilla, do you have any  
> information with regards a possible implementation of ruby in HTML 5.
> XHTML Ruby Support
> http://piro.sakura.ne.jp/xul/_rubysupport.html.en
> * What about Opera, Safari, NetFront, etc. and others?
> Here an example of a site which takes a page
> and gives the hiragana, romaji spelling of the characters in brackets.
> http://yomoyomo.jp/?yyparam=00000101&l=&t=http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/
> Issues by Anne.
> >  1. Detailed processing requirements for user agents such as
> >     what should happen when elements are incorrectly nested, etc.
> >     and what that implies for tools extracting semantics.
> >
> >  2. Integrating it in the HTML parser in a way that is
> >     compatible with the subset of Ruby that Internet Explorer
> >     supports.
> >
> > Of those two, the main problem is probably number 2. Maybe 
> there is  
> > also an issue describing the exact semantics of ruby elements, I  
> > haven't checked the ruby specification in a while...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_character
> http://www.w3.org/TR/ruby
> -- 
> Karl Dubost - http://www.w3.org/People/karl/
> W3C Conformance Manager, QA Activity Lead
>    QA Weblog - http://www.w3.org/QA/
>       *** Be Strict To Be Cool ***
Received on Wednesday, 29 August 2007 15:20:28 UTC

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