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minutes HTML weekly 9 July for review

From: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:46:52 -0500
To: public-html@w3.org, public-html-wg-announce@w3.org
Message-Id: <1247168812.16619.47414.camel@pav.lan>
http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html

                      HTML Weekly Teleconference

09 Jul 2009

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Sam, Matt_May, Masinter, DanC, Murray_Maloney, Julian,
          +1.218.340.aabb, Lachy, Stevef, Mike, Cynthia_Shelly,
          Shepazu, Laura

   Regrets
          Joshue

   Chair
          Sam

   Scribe
          DanC

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Convene, take roll, review agenda
         2. [5]ISSUE-32 (table-summary)
         3. [6]ISSUE-59 (normative-language-reference)
         4. [7]ISSUE-60 (html5-xhtml-namespace)
         5. [8]ISSUE-63 (origin-req-scope)
         6. [9]ISSUE-4 (html-versioning)
         7. [10]ISSUE-35 (aria-processing)
         8. [11]TPAC 2009 admin
         9. [12]URI/URL issue @@
        10. [13]Overdue actions
        11. [14]ISSUE-7 video-codecs
        12. [15]ISSUE-31 (missing-alt)
     * [16]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________



   <rubys1> trackbot, start meeting

   <trackbot> Date: 09 July 2009

   <johndrinkwater> I guess I might be ??P5- no mic though..

Convene, take roll, review agenda

ISSUE-32 (table-summary)

   <masinter> i suggest calling this a "straw poll" rather than a
   "vote"?

   LMM: i suggest calling this a "straw poll" rather than a "vote"

   DanC: that would make it non-binding

   LMM: yes, but it would predict the results of a binding vote pretty
   well

   <Laura> +Laura

   DanC: there's a possibility that a vote will be avoided consensus?

   LMM: but a straw poll would help in any case; it eliminates
   possibilities that noone supports

   <Lachy> I would prefer a straw poll

   MM: I have my doubts [about a straw poll]

   Laura: we could do a straw poll and then a vote

   <masinter> wouldn't need to review "good standing" of wg members who
   haven't been active

   DanC: I think a straw poll is a good idea

   <MikeSmith> action-59 due 2009-07-03

   <trackbot> ACTION-59 Track progress on edits related to issue-38
   style-attr-syntax in section html5/#style0 due date now 2009-07-03

   MM: on research... I'm in contact with Jutta Trev. [sp?] at [u.
   toronto?]; perhaps next week I can give more info on usability
   studies

   <MikeSmith> oops

   <MikeSmith> issue-59?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-59 -- Should the HTML WG produce a separate
   document that is a normative language reference and if so what are
   the requirements -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [17]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/59

     [17] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/59

   <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-59 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-59 (normative-language-reference)

   action-109?

   <trackbot> ACTION-109 -- Michael(tm) Smith to hand out work to
   reviewers of H:TML -- due 2009-06-25 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [18]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/109

     [18] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/109

   <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-109 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

   <MikeSmith> action-109 due 2009-07-23

   <trackbot> ACTION-109 hand out work to reviewers of H:TML due date
   now 2009-07-23

   <masinter> question about whether document compliance ("authoring
   requirements") might be better handled here

   <MikeSmith> action-110 due 2009-07-23

   <trackbot> ACTION-110 Add note to H:TML draft about what's currently
   missing and planned to be added due date now 2009-07-23

   LMM: there was a bugzilla bug and such about authoring
   requirements...
   ... whether they belong in the same spec with
   how-to-build-a-browser...
   ... so that's something to consider

   Mike: not much news on my action; moved them back a couple weeks.

ISSUE-60 (html5-xhtml-namespace)

   Sam: I suggest that the recent announcement about the XHTML 2 WG
   addresses my action

   close ACTION-105

   <trackbot> ACTION-105 Should arrange a meeting between chairs of
   HTML WG and XHTML2 WG to ensure there is a plan for coordination of
   vocabularies to avoid incompatibilities. closed

   <Lachy> yes, close this issue

   LMM: there may be some follow-up

   <Lachy> XHTML 2.0 will end life as a WG NOTE

   MM: does this announcement mean XHTLM 2.0 won't be produced?

   Sam: I expect it'll become a Note

   Julian: if XHTML 2 is published as a Note, which namespace woudl it
   use?

   Lachy: It won't matter, as a Note isn't something people are likely
   to deploy/implement

   MM: I'm a little confused... HTML 5 uses which namespace?
   ... does W3C have namespace policies?

   <Lachy> I suppose someone could take an ACTION to contact the
   XHTML-WG and ask that their work be published as a NOTE using the
   previously used 2002/02/xhtml2 (I think) namespace from older
   working drafts

   DanC: yes

   MM: is there a missing policy?

   DanC: I don't think so; I think what we need re this issue is done;
   there were 2 WGs specifying the /1999/xhtml namespace and now
   there's one

   <masinter> Murray is still concerned about the continuity of the
   xhtml namespace

   <masinter> I will take an action item in 2 weeks to insure that the
   versioning discussion at least touches on this

   <masinter> OK?

   <scribe> ACTION: Larry insure that the versioning discussion at
   least touches on XHTML 2 interactions with the /1999/xhtml namespace
   [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-129 - insure that the versioning
   discussion at least touches on XHTML 2 interactions with the
   /1999/xhtml namespace [on Larry Masinter - due 2009-07-16].

   action-129 due 23 July

   <trackbot> ACTION-129 insure that the versioning discussion at least
   touches on XHTML 2 interactions with the /1999/xhtml namespace due
   date now 23 July

   <masinter> i think there needs to be another action to review any
   "Note" that comes out about XHTML2 to make sure that it doesn't
   contain text redefining 1999/xhtml incompatibily

   <Lachy> Murray, XHTML5 retains compatibility with existing XHTML 1.0
   namespaced documents.

   <masinter> this 'issue' was an administrative one, there's likely a
   technical one too

   MM: I'm concerned that if HTML 5 use the /1999/xhtml namespace it'll
   upset compatibility expectations

   Sam: if HTML 5 used a different namespace it would break existing
   content on the web

ISSUE-63 (origin-req-scope)

   <MikeSmith> action-96?

   <trackbot> ACTION-96 -- Henri Sivonen to to ensure editor removes
   Origin header: from spec -- due 2009-07-08 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/96

     [20] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/96

   <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-96 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-4 (html-versioning)

   LMM: the TAG discussed this in a recent ftf... [see www-tag for
   minutes]... I expect the document discussed will be revised w.r.t.
   that discussion...
   ... my hope was to relate some well-understood principles to the
   doctype/versioning issue... I'm optimistic

   ACTION-108 due 23 July

   <trackbot> ACTION-108 Report back on the TAG's work on versioning
   wrt HTML due date now 23 July

ISSUE-35 (aria-processing)

   Cynthia: we put out a WD 8 Jun
   ... things are on track...
   ... I have a TF participant from Opera; still hoping for
   particpation from Apple

   acton-114 due 1 Aug

   Cynthia: the draft is "aria implementation guide"

   <masinter> (re versioning, TAG discussed it at its F2F meeting,
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/06/23-agenda.html, based on
   document
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/versioning-html/versioning-html-2
   0090611.html ). Minutes forthcoming, but update to document based on
   discussion should be out in 2 weeks

     [21] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/06/23-agenda.html
     [22] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/versioning-html/versioning-html-20090611.html

   <pimpbot> Title: About
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/06/23-agenda.html (at
   www.w3.org)

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/06/23-agenda.html

   DanC: does the draft have examples, sorta seeds of test cases?

   Cynthia: perhaps... it does have some examples

TPAC 2009 admin

   Mike: I did it... interested to know if the chairs are OK with it

   Sam: OK by me; go ahead

   [pointer?]

   action-115?

   <trackbot> ACTION-115 -- Michael(tm) Smith to set up WBS for HTML WG
   participants to attend HTML WG f2f during TPAC 2009 -- due
   2009-05-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [24]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/115

     [24] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/115

   <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-115 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

   <MikeSmith> action-115?

   <trackbot> ACTION-115 -- Michael(tm) Smith to set up WBS for HTML WG
   participants to attend HTML WG f2f during TPAC 2009 -- due
   2009-05-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [25]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/115

     [25] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/115

   draft seems to be
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/2009-11-f2f/

     [26] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/2009-11-f2f/

   <MikeSmith> DanC, yep

   action-123 due 23 July

   <trackbot> ACTION-123 Discuss choice of embedding vcard microdata
   instead of referencing IETF spec and defining conformance reqs for
   HTML5 due date now 23 July

URI/URL issue @@

   <masinter> action-125?

   <trackbot> ACTION-125 -- Julian Reschke to coordinate with LMM and
   DanC to get an Internet Draft that addresses some HTML 5 href issues
   -- due 2009-07-02 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/125

     [27] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/125

   <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-125 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

   Julian: we're organizing a BOF at the next IETF, and Larry is
   working on updating the IRI spec

   Larry: I started from the IRI spec, thinking this is a new protocol
   element, separate from IRIs and and LEIRIs, but I think this [?] is
   a change to the mapping from IRI to URI...
   ... but I think the mapping needs another parameter, i.e. the
   encoding of the document character set, which defaults to utf-8...
   ... also, space handling should be tweaked...

   (yup, sounds right to me)

   Larry: that's the design I have in mind ... I haven't gotten around
   to soliciting review by email

   Julian: hmm... that's not the case in Atom documents... have to be
   careful about that default

   Larry: ah; right... yes.

   <Julian> (need to be careful about to which document formats the new
   encoding consderations apply - HTML5 would, Atom not (?))

   ACTION-125 due 1 Aug

   <trackbot> ACTION-125 Coordinate with LMM and DanC to get an
   Internet Draft that addresses some HTML 5 href issues due date now 1
   Aug

Overdue actions

   ACTION-38 due 30 July

   <trackbot> ACTION-38 Chairs to review need for amending charter with
   Director due date now 30 July

   Sam that was pending on the XHTML 2 stuff.

ISSUE-7 video-codecs

   <masinter> DanC: two minds, like image -- don't need to spec it,
   other hand, might be important

   LMM: I think the factors affecting the choice of codec are largely
   outside the control of this WG: perceptions about licensing,
   quality, etc. ...
   ... I'm more concerned with the perception that some decision got
   made when it didn't
   ... my suggestion is: the issue is still open...
   ... one idea is a note on the small number of choices and why we
   haven't chosen
   ... is it possible to move the <video> tag to a separate document,
   with its own schedule?

   Sam: I'm interested in volunteers

   DanC: video is feature #1 in community discussion of HTML 5;
   separating its schedule would be a challenge

   Sam: I'm calling for volunteers to take an active position on this
   issue; Ian has stated his.
   ... I note Rob Sayer's start

   <scribe> ACTION: Sam review status of video codec positions
   [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-130 - Review status of video codec
   positions [on Sam Ruby - due 2009-07-16].

   action-130 due 30 July

   <trackbot> ACTION-130 Review status of video codec positions due
   date now 30 July

   Cynthia: a deadline helps some people

   Julian: the diff between April and the current draft is that he took
   out the "it would be nice..." [requirements] text. The actual text
   to remove the Theora codec was a year ago or so.
   ... I'm not sure why the statement of desired codec was removed

   <Julian> the text that was removed recently is:
   [29]http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-html5-20090423/video.html#video-and
   -audio-codecs-for-video-elements

     [29] http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-html5-20090423/video.html#video-and-audio-codecs-for-video-elements

   <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 (at www.w3.org)

   <Julian> Rob's mail:
   [30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jul/0267.htm
   l

     [30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jul/0267.html

   <pimpbot> Title: proposed audio/video codec text from Rob Sayre on
   2009-07-07 (public-html@w3.org from July 2009) (at lists.w3.org)

   Doug: didn't Rob S. already take a position?

   Sam: I read it as a "what if...?" sort of thing but I'll check

   SteveF: I'd like canvas accessibility to be a tracker action

   (er... issue)

   <Laura> [31]http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/AddedElementCanvas

     [31] http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/AddedElementCanvas

   <pimpbot> Title: HTML/AddedElementCanvas - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)

   issue: canvas accessibility

   <trackbot> Created ISSUE-74 - Canvas accessibility ; please complete
   additional details at
   [32]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/74/edit .

     [32] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/74/edit

   issue-74: see also
   [33]http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/AddedElementCanvas

     [33] http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/AddedElementCanvas

   <trackbot> ISSUE-74 Canvas accessibility notes added

   <pimpbot> Title: HTML/AddedElementCanvas - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)

   <scribe> ACTION: Stevef report on canvas accessibility [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Stevef

   <pimpbot> planet: Which browser has the best support for HTML 5
   currently?
   <11[35]http://stackoverflow.com/questions/150577/which-browser-has-t
   he-best-support-for-html-5-currently>

     [35] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/150577/which-browser-has-the-best-support-for-html-5-currently

ISSUE-31 (missing-alt)

   issue-31?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-31 -- What to do when a reasonable text equivalent
   is unknown/unavailable? -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [36]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/31

     [36] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/31

   <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-31 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

   Cynthia: what happened to the change request?

   [anybody got a pointer to the change request?]

   <Laura> WAI CG Consensus Resolutions on Text alternatives in HTML 5

   <Laura> [37]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/Text-Alternatives-in-HTML5

     [37] http://www.w3.org/2009/06/Text-Alternatives-in-HTML5

   <pimpbot> Title: WAI CG Consensus Resolutions on Text alternatives
   in HTML 5 (at www.w3.org)

   <Lachy> Is this the WAI CG mail being discussed?
   [38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Jun/0070.htm
   l

     [38] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Jun/0070.html

   <pimpbot> Title: WAI-CG Consensus Recommendations on Alternative
   Text in HTML 5 from Janina Sajka on 2009-06-11 (www-archive@w3.org
   from June 2009) (at lists.w3.org)

   Cynthia: what's the process for getting traction on this?

   <Lachy> -->
   [39]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Jun/att-0070
   /Text-Alternatives-in-HTML5.html

     [39] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Jun/att-0070/Text-Alternatives-in-HTML5.html

   <pimpbot> Title: WAI CG Consensus Resolutions on Text alternatives
   in HTML 5 (at lists.w3.org)

   Sam: I'll try to clarify by email...
   ... I'm working with people getting CVS access, helping them produce
   documents...

   <Lachy> It appears that that WAI CG text alternatives document was
   never sent to the HTML WG, only to www-archive and wai-xtech

   Cynthia: the document WAI produced is more of a requirements list

   SteveF: I'm interested to write the design part

   <Lachy> ... so I'm not surprised the HTMLWG haven't done anything
   with it

   good point, Lachy

   <scribe> ACTION: steve draft ALT spec [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-131 - Draft ALT spec [on Steve Faulkner -
   due 2009-07-16].

   action-131 due 7 Sep

   <trackbot> ACTION-131 Draft ALT spec due date now 7 Sep

   <Laura> I'll help with it Steve.

   ADJOURN.

   <scribe> ACTION: Stevef report on canvas accessibility [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action05]

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Stevef

   <scribe> ACTION: Steve report on canvas accessibility [recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action06]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-132 - Report on canvas accessibility [on
   Steve Faulkner - due 2009-07-16].

   <Stevef> lachy: it was forwarded to the html wg list by shelley
   powers (i think)

   action-132 due 23 July

   <trackbot> ACTION-132 Report on canvas accessibility due date now 23
   July

   <Laura> bye

   <Lachy> Stevef, ok. I must have missed it. But for future reference,
   please make sure the WAI CG actually sends feedback to public-html
   if they intend us to do something abou tit

   <Stevef> forwarded 11th june
   [43]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jun/0391.htm
   l

     [43] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jun/0391.html

   <pimpbot> Title: forwarding: WAI CG Consensus Resolutions on Text
   alternatives in HTML 5 from Shelley Powers on 2009-06-11
   (public-html@w3.org from June 2009) (at lists.w3.org)

   <Stevef> lachy: janina missed putting the html wg on the list, i am
   sure she meant to as it was directed to the HTML WG


Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Larry insure that the versioning discussion at least
   touches on XHTML 2 interactions with the /1999/xhtml namespace
   [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Sam review status of video codec positions [recorded
   in [47]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: steve draft ALT spec [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: Steve report on canvas accessibility [recorded in
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: Stevef report on canvas accessibility [recorded in
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: Stevef report on canvas accessibility [recorded in
   [51]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action05]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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    $Date: 2009/07/09 19:17:14 $
     _________________________________________________________

-- 
Dan Connolly, W3C http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
gpg D3C2 887B 0F92 6005 C541  0875 0F91 96DE 6E52 C29E
Received on Thursday, 9 July 2009 19:47:06 UTC

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