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{minutes} HTML WG issue-tracking telcon 2008-04-10/11

From: Michael(tm) Smith <mike@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:21:58 +0900
To: public-html-wg-announce@w3.org
Message-ID: <20080411022156.GB7578@sideshowbarker>
http://www.w3.org/2008/04/10-html-wg-minutes.html

Present
      LauraCarlson, AnneVanKesteren, MikeSmith

Regrets
      ChrisWilson

Chair
      MikeSmith

Scribe
      MikeSmith


 * Topics
     1. convene HTML WG weekly issue-tracking meeting
     2. Issue-14 ARIA integration
     3. Action-54 requiring alt attribute on img
     4. Issue-38, Syntax of the style attribute
     5. Hixie's issues graph
     _________________________________________________________

convene HTML WG weekly issue-tracking meeting

Issue-14 ARIA integration

   <smedero> There was a thread ongoing about ARIA this week from:
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Apr/0189.html

       http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Apr/0189.html

   <smedero> but it was mostly procedure afaik

   anne: I think that issue-14 was mostly related to the document-level
   ARIA roles
   ... hsivonen has posted about this at his site

   <anne> http://hsivonen.iki.fi/aria-html5-bis/

      http://hsivonen.iki.fi/aria-html5-bis/

   <smedero> yes, that's true. it was issue-14 was quite specific....

   <smedero> ahh, thanks anne.

   anne: I've not been involved in that discussion

   Laura: me neither

   [we record that lacking anybody more familiar with the issue, not
   much point in the 3 of us to try to have a discussion about it]

   action-54

   action-54?

   <trackbot-ng> ACTION-54 -- Gregory Rosmaita to work with SteveF
   draft text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include
   @alt on img elements -- due 2008-04-10 -- OPEN

   <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54

Action-54 requiring alt attribute on img

   Laura: Steve Faulkner e-mailed PF/Al Gilman, we (HTML WG) are
   waiting to hear back from them.

   action-54?

   <trackbot-ng> ACTION-54 -- Gregory Rosmaita to work with SteveF
   draft text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include
   @alt on img elements -- due 2008-04-17 -- OPEN

   <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54

   MikeSmith sets the due date to one week from now

Issue-38, Syntax of the style attribute

   issue-38?

   <trackbot-ng> ISSUE-38 -- Syntax of the style attribute -- RAISED

   <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/38

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/38

   <smedero> (Housekeeping: I updated ISSUE-14 with a note about
   Henri's latest ARIA/HTML5 article as his piece discusses roles in
   quite a bit of detail.)

   anne: I think we will change style to allow authors to use it on
   every element, not just on font
   ... the other thing, the way that style is defined, the definition
   is probably already OK
   ... or maybe not entirely...
   ... the sentence quoted in that issues does not affect UA
   implementation behavior
   ... it only relates to authoring conformance

   quoting Daniel Glazman's original request:

   [[

   The CSS WG would like the definition of the style attribute in

   HTML 5 to go back to the phrasing of HTML 4, entirely leaving the

   definition of that attribute's value to the stylesheet's language

   and error handling. We don't think HTML 5 should define the contents

   of the style attribute in deeper details than what HTML 4 does,

   and in particular should not specify how individual stylistic data

   are separated inside the value of the style attribute.

   ]]

   <anne> "The style attribute, if specified, must contain only a list
   of zero or more semicolon-separated (;) CSS declarations."

   above is what HTML5 currently says

   <anne> author ^^

   <anne> The declarations specified must be parsed and treated as the
   body of a declaration block whose selector matches just that font
   element. For the purposes of the CSS cascade, the attribute must be
   considered to be a 'style' attribute at the author level.

   <smedero> anne's comments are related to ISSUE-3

   <smedero> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/3

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/3

   <anne> UA ^^

   <anne> no, ISSUE-38 actually

   <smedero> well... just getting back to "anne: I think we will change
   style to allow authors to use it on every element, not just on font"

   <anne> ah, sorry :)

   <smedero> unless MikeSmith quoted you wrong... that gets to the
   heart of ISSUE-3

   anne: the criteria of only allowing zero or more semicolon-separated
   CSS declarations relates only to authoring conformance
   ... issue 3 is that style is only allowed on font, and people want
   it to global
   ... I think that based on the feedback that has come in so far, that
   part of the HTML5 draft will be revised
   ... the spec actually already says something along those lines
   ... that the section will likely be dropped

   getting back to issue-3 and issue-38, a couple of relevant quotes
   from the HTML5 draft:

   [[

   This entire section will probably be dropped. The intent of this
   section was to allow a way for WYSIWYG editors, which don't have
   enough information to use the "real" "semantic" elements, to still
   make HTML pages without abusing those semantic elements (since
   abusing elements is even worse than not using them in the first
   place). We have still got to find a solution to this, while not
   letting it be ok for hand-coding authors to abuse the style=""
   attribute.

   ]]

   [[

   We probably need to move this attribute to more elements, maybe even
   all of them, though if we do that we really should find a way to
   strongly discourage its use (and the use of its DOM attribute) for
   non-WYSIWYG authors.

   ]]

   MikeSmith: Hixie, do you have anything to add at this point to
   discussion around issue-38?

   <Hixie> which one is -38? the style="" issue w.r.t. to how its
   contents will be defined?

   (which is Daniel Glazman's request about HTML5 spec for style)

   MikeSmith: yeah

   <Hixie> yeah i've every intention of just doing what he suggested
   and moving on

   OK, great

   <smedero> sounds like both ISSUE-3 and ISSUE-38 will be resolved
   shortly then. yay.

   yep, yay in general for resolving any open issues

   <smedero> basically

   <Hixie> "shortly", i dunno

   <Hixie> depends when i get to style=""

   <smedero> heh, okay

   <smedero> that's fair

   <Hixie> might not be until 2009 :-)

   well, resolved at least that we have on record what the plan is

   <smedero> yeah,

   <smedero> that's what I meant.

   so sufficient for closing it out, I think

   [adjourned]

Hixie's issues graph

   <anne> http://www.whatwg.org/issues/data.html

      http://www.whatwg.org/issues/data.html

   anne notes that above URL is Hixie's graph of number of HTML5 issues
   over time

   <Hixie> number of outstanding e-mails over time, not issues

   <Hixie> (though they're correlated)

   MikeSmith: OK, thanks

   currently more that 3000 outstanding e-mails, it seems

   <Philip> 3122, says http://www.whatwg.org/issues/data.csv

      http://www.whatwg.org/issues/data.csv

   thassa big number

   <Philip> It's only a few per day since the start

   <Hixie> i'm replying at roughly a rate of 10 a day

   <Hixie> so we're on track to hit my predicted timetable

   <Hixie> (though not to hit the w3c's crazy timetable)

   MikeSmith: your timetable has us going to CR in 2009-10, right?

   <Hixie> haha no

   <Hixie> 2012.

   <Hixie>
   http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/TIMETABLE

      http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/TIMETABLE

   MikeSmith: yeah, sorry, I meant first LC in 2009-10

   <Hixie> yeah

   OK

   [end of minutes]

-- 
Michael(tm) Smith
http://people.w3.org/mike/
http://sideshowbarker.net/

Received on Friday, 11 April 2008 02:22:34 UTC

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