W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html-media@w3.org > December 2013

RE: {minutes} HTML WG media telecon 2013-12-10 - EME and MSE status and bug discussion

From: Adrian Bateman <adrianba@microsoft.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 17:15:17 +0000
To: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, "public-html-media@w3.org" <public-html-media@w3.org>
Message-ID: <356e1390fb264a67997d6d0dc0f0a218@BY2PR03MB608.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Minutes -> http://www.w3.org/2013/12/10-html-media-minutes.html

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                  HTML Media Task Force Teleconference

10 Dec 2013

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Dec/0013.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/12/10-html-media-irc

Attendees

   Present
          +1.760.591.aaaa, paulc, pladd, markw, Aaron_Colwell,
          jdsmith, +1.425.936.aabb, BobLund, davide, ddorwin, pal,
          adrianba

   Regrets
   Chair
          Paul Cotton

   Scribe
          Adrian Bateman

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe
         2. [6]MSE status and bugs
         3. [7]Bug 23169 - reconsider the jitter video quality
            metrics again
         4. [8]CfC for MSE CR Working Draft is awaiting ACTION-58,
            ACTION-60 and Bug 23169
         5. [9]EME status and bugs
         6. [10]New EME bugs this week
         7. [11]Bug 23828 - HTMLSourceElement with |keySystem|
            attribute should create MediaKeys object for
            |keySystem|
         8. [12]Bug 23866 - Remove section 4.3. Addition to Media
            Element Load Algorithm
         9. [13]Bug 23955 - Add optional
            MediaKeys.loadSession(DOMString sessionId) method
        10. [14]Bug 24025 - Add optional configuration parameter
            to MediaKeys constructor
        11. [15]Bug 24026 - Document that URLs (destinationURL)
            should/may be validated and/or normalized
        12. [16]Other EME bugs for discussion
        13. [17]Bug 23733 - Consider prohibiting support of active
            content by CDMs
        14. [18]Other EME bugs awaiting action by Editors
        15. [19]Chair and Scribe for next meeting
        16. [20]Adjournment
     * [21]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 10 December 2013

   <paulc> adrian: Are you going to call in?

   <paulc> I need you for the MSE discussions.

   <scribe> ScribeNick: adrianba

   <scribe> Scribe: Adrian Bateman

Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe

   paulc: done

MSE status and bugs

   paulc: there is an editor's draft and candidate CR draft
   ... two bugs still open

   <paulc> MSE bugs: [22]http://tinyurl.com/6pdnzej

     [22] http://tinyurl.com/6pdnzej

   paulc: we'll cover these below

   ACTION-57?

   <trackbot> ACTION-57 -- Aaron Colwell to File a bug on mse
   about the file api change -- due 2013-12-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/57

     [23] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/57

   paulc: this is done

   close ACTION-57

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-57.

   ACTION-58?

   <trackbot> ACTION-58 -- Adrian Bateman to Speak to editors of
   file api spec about resurrecting "origin of blob" text in spec
   -- due 2013-12-10 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [24]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/58

     [24] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/58

   <paulc> Adrian's proposal is in:
   [25]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23989#c2

     [25] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23989#c2

   adrianba: i updated the bug with a proposal

   acolwell: sounds fine with me - i can update the spec

   paulc: the place that refers to the text coming in line can be
   changed

   acolwell: we still have a dependency on createObjectURL

   paulc: think we can close action-58?

   adrianba: yes

   close ACTION-58

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-58.

   ACTION-59?

   <trackbot> ACTION-59 -- Paul Cotton to Coordinate with web apps
   on the streams api, give them mse requirements and timeline --
   due 2013-12-10 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [26]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/59

     [26] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/59

   paulc: this is pending - doesn't block the next step

   adrianba: i'm meeting with one of the editors of stream on
   friday and can discuss this

   action-59 due in 1 week

   <trackbot> Set action-59 Coordinate with web apps on the
   streams api, give them mse requirements and timeline due date
   to 2013-12-17.

   ACTION-60?

   <trackbot> ACTION-60 -- Adrian Bateman to Produce a summary of
   last call comments dispositions -- due 2013-12-10 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/60

     [27] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/60

   paulc: any update on this?

   adrianba: will send offline

   <paulc> it is somewhere in the HTML wiki

Bug 23169 - reconsider the jitter video quality metrics again

   paulc: been reopened by Microsoft again

   <paulc> Fix:
   [28]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23169#c16

     [28] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23169#c16

   <paulc> Reopen:
   [29]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23169#c17

     [29] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23169#c17

   paulc: implementation from F2F discussion was done on dec 2
   ... jerry re-opened it

   jdsmith: we just requested the units be adjusted

   acolwell: this was an accident - it was implied to be seconds
   before and i accidentally changed it to imply microseconds
   ... i will fix it

   <paulc> CfC for MSE CR Working Draft is awaiting ACTION-58,
   ACTION-60 and Bug 23169

CfC for MSE CR Working Draft is awaiting ACTION-58, ACTION-60 and Bug
23169

   paulc: we're waiting on the bug fixes and the ACTION-60
   document
   ... doesn't seem to be anything blocking us from getting
   candidate CR and running CfC
   ... need LC disposition of comments for the meeting with the
   Director
   ... the right plan is to make the two pending changes for 23169
   and 23989 and send a note that the candidate draft is ready to
   go
   ... you said when you ran pubrules it complained about
   implementation experience

   acolwell: i think that is a respec nit

   paulc: this escalates ACTION-60 - it will be on the critical
   path
   ... i will send a note to the team after the meeting with a
   timeline
   ... i originally proposed that as soon as we have the candidate
   draft and run the CfC in the TF and WG at the same time

   adrianba: propose we ask for objections from the TF and then
   run CfC in the WG since the TF is a part of the WG
   ... if the WG approves then the TF must too

   paulc: we could do that if the meeting is okay with that
   ... any objections?

   <paulc> The candidate draft will include the proposed changes
   to bug 23989 and 23169 discussed at this meeting.

   paulc: we will get the CfC started as soon as we get the
   candidate draft

   acolwell: suggestions for date?

   paulc: thursday jan 8?

   acolwell: and the end date is 3 months after

   paulc: yes
   ... did we agree features at risk?

   acolwell: totalFrameDelay
   ... i will get something published today

   <paulc> Paul suggested Thu Jan 8 as the publication date with
   only frame delay as the CR feature at risk.

EME status and bugs

   paulc: agenda item 6 has new bugs
   ... agenda item 7 has a bug david wanted to discuss
   ... agenda item 8 documents next steps for bugs
   ... mostly on the editors
   ... only thing i want to do here is to give anyone named an
   opportunity to push back
   ... propose we spend the next while on item 6, the new bugs

New EME bugs this week

   <ddorwin> 23828 and 23897 are related to the addition of
   keysystem to HTMLSourceElement

Bug 23828 - HTMLSourceElement with |keySystem| attribute should
create MediaKeys object for |keySystem|

   <paulc>
   [30]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23828

     [30] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23828

   [31]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23828

     [31] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23828

   ddorwin: in the original spec we added keysystem attribute
   ... we found some inconsistencies at TPAC
   ... this bug is to create a MediaKeys object if there is
   keysystem

   <paulc> 2nd bug related to this topic is
   [32]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23897

     [32] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23897

   ddorwin: Henri pointed out that the spec only added a script
   attribute
   ... so the other bug is to do what we intended and allow
   content attributes
   ... this was always the intent but the spec didn't say that
   correctly
   ... there is still the question of whether we want to do this
   ... it is mentioned in the features at risk bug
   ... this might be the last thing to fix on this before making
   the decision to keep or not

   adrianba: +1

   paulc: are you saying wait until just before LC?

   ddorwin: yes, this will be at the bottom of the list to fix

   <paulc> Both bugs 23897 and 23828.

Bug 23866 - Remove section 4.3. Addition to Media Element Load
Algorithm

   [33]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23866

     [33] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23866

   ddorwin: a tracking bug to clean up spec text
   ... this is about separating the MediaKeys from the media
   element
   ... you should be able to change the source or reload and the
   MediaKeys remains attached

Bug 23955 - Add optional MediaKeys.loadSession(DOMString sessionId)
method

   [34]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23955

     [34] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23955

   ddorwin: proposal to make a peer to createSession to take a
   session ID and load the session
   ... lots of discussions about this - for example key release
   ... this is a proposal to formalise this and define how it
   looks including same origin rules, etc.

   <markw> yep

   ddorwin: realising this isn't always required it is optional

   paulc: i note that markw says this could allow key release bug
   to be closed
   ... any discussion on this?

Bug 24025 - Add optional configuration parameter to MediaKeys
constructor

   [35]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24025

     [35] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24025

   ddorwin: looking at other use cases (e.g. offline specific
   licenses)
   ... we don't have a way to pass those - it could be done in the
   keymessage/update path it would require extra round trips
   ... propose to add a configuration parameter to the CDM
   ... mark suggested a dictionary
   ... all of this would be optional - not sure we can define all
   the parameters
   ... Henri replied this morning - i will reply later

   paulc: mark also responded

   markw: just a question about the dictionary
   ... i think this is to say this is a javascript object and
   doesn't prevent additional values
   ... implementations are free to ignore undefined members

Bug 24026 - Document that URLs (destinationURL) should/may be
validated and/or normalized

   [36]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24026

     [36] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24026

   ddorwin: URLs can come from CDM or potentially from media data
   ... in some implementations they get normalised
   ... we at least need to say they will be normalised or
   validated
   ... there is a question of if we say they should be
   ... i think we might have discussed this before and one issue
   was how to define normalise
   ... we could include a warning that it might be different
   across browsers
   ... i know there is a URL spec - perhaps it will help

   paulc: does anyone know the status of this in W3C and IETF?
   ... think no work currently at W3C

   ddorwin: least controversial is they may be validated, next is
   they should be validated, and finally is switching to some kind
   of URL type which seems further down the road

   pal: what is the exact definition of validated?

   ddorwin: i would assume either invalid url components may be
   dropped or you might lose the entire url

   pal: so it looks like the question is what is the defining
   document for a valid URL
   ... i guess changing a URL out from under a piece of code that
   might expect something specific sounds impolite

   adrianba: i think it is okay to change the url given its
   purpose
   ... but unless there is a concrete definition of validate or
   normalize i think the distinction between must and should isn't
   useful

   pal: the URL may have come from the media data, right?

   ddorwin: yes

   pal: if this is going to be transformed it would be good to
   know how
   ... this is going to be in files - if it gets transformed
   differently in different implementations
   ... we should know exactly what happens

   ddorwin: this is about nits in URLs - if you create a valid URL
   that is valid in most browsers then you won't have a problem
   ... it's intended to be used in XHR

   pal: making sure that the file contains a valid URL is fine but
   i think we need to be very precise

   paulc: anne's spec is supposed to document what browsers do
   ... one last item i want to process

Other EME bugs for discussion

Bug 23733 - Consider prohibiting support of active content by CDMs

   [37]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23733

     [37] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23733

   paulc: wondering what we want to do about this
   ... don't think we have time for the discussion today

   markw: the bug was to consider this topic - it was proposed
   originally in the security section by glenn i think
   ... there was a lot of pushback at tpac, especially the
   definition of active
   ... if there was a way to prohibit executable content - i think
   there is a class of content nobody wants - then we could define
   that
   ... we could frame this as a question to CDM vendors
   ... in the absence of any consensus then we can drop this

   paulc: i'm trying to understand what change you are proposing

   markw: i'm not sure what is in there next

   paulc: why don't you take the f2f and make a proposal?

   markw: not sure i can do that

   paulc: doesn't that mean won't fix?

   adrianba: we could close NEEDSINFO but i think mark was
   proposing to ask for a discussion first

Other EME bugs awaiting action by Editors

   paulc: lots of action items for editors

   markw: i think 17199 is dependent on loadSession bug

Chair and Scribe for next meeting

   acolwell: i pushed new MSE and candidate CR while you were
   talking about EME
   ... we should be good to go

   paulc: i will look at CfC today - ACTION-60 is on the critical
   path

Adjournment

   paulc: think we can adjourn - will have EME next week
   ... david thanks for your suggestions for the agenda
   ... adjourned

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]

_____________________
From: Paul Cotton [mailto:Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2013 4:47 PM
To: public-html-media@w3.org
Subject: {agenda} HTML WG media telecon 2013-12-10 - EME and MSE status and bug discussion

The HTML WG media teleconference meeting will occur on 2013-12-10 for up to 60 minutes from 15:00Z to 16:00Z.
 
http://timeanddate.com/s/2hfe
 
Tokyo midnight, Amsterdam/Oslo 17:00, London/Dublin 16:00, New Jersey/York 11:00, Kansas City 10:00, Seattle/San Francisco 08:00.
 
Chair of the meeting: Paul Cotton
Scribe: TBD
 
(See the end of this email for dial-in and IRC info.)
 
== Agenda ==
 
1. Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe
 
2. Previous meeting minutes
F2F minutes: http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-html-wg-minutes.html
Dec 3: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Dec/0002.html 
  
3. Review of action items and issues
https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/
Status: We need to review the outstanding action items since I believe many are outdated as a result of F2F discussions.

4. MSE status and bugs
 
a) Media Source Extensions editor's draft: 
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/media-source/media-source.html
Status as of Dec 9:  Last updated on Dec 3.

b) Media Source Extensions candidate draft
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/default/media-source/media-source-cr.html 

c) Media Source Extensions bugs: 
http://tinyurl.com/6pdnzej
Status as of Dec 9: 2 bugs.  See below.

d) All Last Call bugs
http://tinyurl.com/lowrcmq

e) Action plan to enter CR

1) ACTION-57 - File a bug on mse about the file api change [on Aaron Colwell - due 2013-12-10].
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/57 
DONE.  See:
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23989 

2) ACTION-58 - Speak to editors of file api spec about resurrecting "origin of blob" text in spec [on Adrian Bateman - due 2013-12-10].
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/58 

3) ACTION-59: paulc to coordinate with Web Apps on the streams API, give them MSE requirements and timeline
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/59

4) ACTION-60: Produce a summary of last call comments dispositions [Adrian] 
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/60 

5) Bug 23169 - reconsider the jitter video quality metrics again
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23169#c16
Status: REOPENED
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23169#c17 

6) CfC for MSE CR Working Draft is awaiting ACTION-58, ACTION-60 and Bug 23169

5. EME status and bugs
 
a) Encrypted Media Extensions editor's draft 
 http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/encrypted-media/encrypted-media.html
Last updated on Nov 14.

b) Encrypted Media Extensions bugs: 
http://tinyurl.com/7tfambo
Status as of Dec 9: 21 bugs (previously 17 bugs)

c) F2F action plan and action items
http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-html-wg-minutes.html#item01
http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-html-wg-minutes.html#item20 

1) ACTION-61: Work with wendy to make sure we get a security review [ Paul ]
https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/61

2) ACTION-62: Report back about the plan for 20944 due 2013-12-15 [ Paul ]
https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/62

6. New EME bugs this week

a) Bug 23828 - HTMLSourceElement with |keySystem| attribute should create MediaKeys object for |keySystem|
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23828

b) Bug 23866 - Remove section 4.3. Addition to Media Element Load Algorithm
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23866 

c) Bug 23897 - Add keysystem content attribute for to HTMLSourceElement
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23897 

d) Bug 23955 - Add optional MediaKeys.loadSession(DOMString sessionId) method
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23955

e) Bug 24025 - Add optional configuration parameter to MediaKeys constructor
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24025 

f) Bug 24026 - Document that URLs (destinationURL) should/may be validated and/or normalized
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24026 

7. Other EME bugs for discussion

a) Bug 23733 - Consider prohibiting support of active content by CDMs
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23733 

8. Other EME bugs awaiting action by Editors

a) Bug 17199 - Provide examples for and get feedback on Key Release
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17199
Status: David thinks this is mostly obsolete, especially with 23955. David thinks we just need to remove some existing text as discussed at TPAC.

b) Bug 17202 - Explicitly document how keys are to be shared
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17202
Status: David to implement https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17202#c3

c) Bug 17660 - need token relative with user identity for a new generateKeyRequest parameter
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17660
Status: Adrian has an action: https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/54 

d) Bug 17673 - Define Initialization Data for implementations that choose to support the ISO Base Media File Format
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673 
Status: Adrian(?) to document the new solution, which is basically to send the pssh boxes, preceded by the sinf box when relevant. We'll probably need a separate bug for the common PSSH format.

e) Bug 17682 - Clear Key: Document how keys and key IDs are associated
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17682
Statius: David TODO.

f) Bug 17750 - Define the behavior MediaKeySession close() and clearing the keys attribute
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17750
Status: Adrian?

g) Bug 18515 - Provide more details on behavior of the media element when the key for an encrypted block is not available
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515 
Status: Jerry to make a proposal: https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/51 

h) Bug 20944 - EME should do more to encourage/ensure CDM-level interop
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20944 

ACTION-62: Report back about the plan for 20944 due 2013-12-15 [Paul] 
https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/62

i) Bug 21203 - EME leaks information cross-origin
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21203 
Status: Adrian to implement his proposal?

j) Bug 21798 - Revisit MediaKeyError codes
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21798 
Status: David to resume this discussion.

k) Bug 21854 - Define MediaKeySession life cycle states and/or events
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21854 
Status: Waiting for Adrian's reply to David's comments.

l) Bug 23619 - Change MediaKeyError to extend DOMError and use strings for error names
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23619 
Status: David will implement along with 21798.

m) Bug 23827 - Need to add features at risk prior to entry into Candidate Recommendation
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23827 
Status: To be used when we are ready to enter CR.

9. Any other business
 
10. Chair and Scribe for next meeting
Status:  We need to decide if MSE or EME will meet on Dec 17.  The Dec 24 and 31 meetings have been cancelled.

11. Adjournment
 
== Dial-in and IRC Details ==
 
Zakim teleconference bridge:
   +1.617.761.6200, conference 63342 ("media")
https://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_5366
 
Supplementary IRC chat (logged):
   #html-media on irc.w3.org port 6665 or port 80

Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
Received on Tuesday, 10 December 2013 17:16:11 UTC

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