RE: [css3-lists] CJK numbering algorithms

Thank you for the feedback.

I didn’t mean to support negative numbers just for completeness.
I agree that people would not use negative numbers for lists; MS Word for instance doesn’t support setting negative numbers to lists. But the counter() function has a little wider usage than list numbering and I think there’s a possible usage, it’s still rare though.

You’re right that there’s no formal way to express negative numbers, so I agree that saying “Japanese number styles does not support negative numbers” is one possible option. But what you will get by doing so is a fallback behavior to “decimal” or “cjk-decimal”, and I think supporting negative numbers is better than that. What I wanted to say before was that, it’s a choice from a few compromising options where there’re no perfect answer.

So what would you choose if possible options were:

1.      Fallback to “decimal” or “cjk-decimal” (or whatever else)

2.      Support negative numbers in the least strange way

3.      Display “#error” string just like MS Word does
I think the option 2 works the best if we have to choose. If you can come up with other possible options, I’d be more than happy to know.

If we go with option 2, the negative sign is even more difficult choice. I think U+FF0D FULLWIDTH HYPHEN-MINUS would be the best choice for horizontal text flow, and is more common than “マイナス”, but it looks broken in vertical text flow.

“マイナス” is the choice of “least broken in both horizontal and vertical text flow” for me. Again, I’d love to hear if you could come up with other options. I tried to figure out more options in this ML in January without much luck.

I was assuming that the negative sign was customizable using @counter-style, so the choice of “least broken” was the right thing to do. Now it turned out that it was not customizable, so the choice is even more difficult.

If all/most people in this ML and stakeholders think other option than option 2 is the way to go, I’m very happy to follow the decision.


Regards,
Koji


From: ryosuke.niwa@gmail.com [mailto:ryosuke.niwa@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ryosuke Niwa
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 1:49 AM
To: Koji Ishii
Cc: public-html-ig-jp@w3.org
Subject: Re: [css3-lists] CJK numbering algorithms

I'm strongly opposed to supporting negative numbers in Japanese counter style.

If I read the earlier thread correctly, it was added for completeness but Korean counter style doesn't support it either. And in practice, I don't think people ever use マイナス一, マイナス二, etc... for numbering lists.

Best,
Ryosuke Niwa
Software Engineer
Google Inc.

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp<mailto:kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp>> wrote:
漢数字の記法についていろいろとディスカッションし、Editor's Draftを再度更新してもらいました。

http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-lists/#cjk-counter-styles

"japanese-formal" のゼロと、fallback についてはフィードバックをしました。

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Apr/0652.html

他にお気づきの点がありましたら、お知らせください。

よろしくお願いいたします。


-----Original Message-----
From: www-style-request@w3.org<mailto:www-style-request@w3.org> [mailto:www-style-request@w3.org<mailto:www-style-request@w3.org>] On Behalf Of Tab Atkins Jr.
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:49 AM
To: fantasai
Cc: www-style@w3.org<mailto:www-style@w3.org>
Subject: Re: [css3-lists] CJK numbering algorithms

I've made the change and rearranged the sections accordingly.  Can
everyone check out
<http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-lists/#cjk-counter-styles> and make sure
I haven't done anything dumb?

~TJ