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Re: Role of this email group after October 1st

From: Shelley Powers <shelleyp@burningbird.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:28:51 -0500
Message-ID: <4CA4F303.6040901@burningbird.net>
To: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
CC: public-html-comments@w3.org, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
  On 9/30/10 3:10 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
> On 09/30/2010 03:49 PM, Shelley Powers wrote:
>> On 9/30/10 2:15 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
>>> On 09/30/2010 03:04 PM, Shelley Powers wrote:
>>>> On 9/30/10 1:21 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
>>>>> On 09/30/2010 01:13 PM, Shelley Powers wrote:
>>>>>> According to the Last Call timeline, starting tomorrow (Oct 1) 
>>>>>> all new
>>>>>> bugs in the HTML WG bugzilla data are automatically labeled Last 
>>>>>> Call
>>>>>> comments, which is somewhat equivalent to being made an issue,
>>>>>> directly.
>>>>>
>>>>> How did you come to that conclusion?
>>>>>
>>>>> My assumption is that bugs entered during Last Call will be processed
>>>>> in a manner very similar to the way that bugs are resolved today: a
>>>>> set of them will be FIXED, a set will be WONTFIX and not pursued, and
>>>>> a set will become TrackerRequests and we will solicit change 
>>>>> proposals.
>>>>
>>>> Because the timeline said that bugs entered into the database after
>>>> October 1 will be treated like Last Call comments.
>>>>
>>>> "
>>>> - Oct 1, 2010 - cutoff for bugs to be considered as pre-LC feedback
>>>> Consequence of missing this date: bugs beyond this date will be 
>>>> treated
>>>> as Last Call comments. The Chairs could grant exceptions on a
>>>> case-by-case basis, but in general there is no guarantee of a bug 
>>>> filed
>>>> after the cutoff being settled before Last Call.
>>>> "
>>>
>>> And how, exactly is that "somewhat equivalent to being made an issue,
>>> directly"?
>>>
>>> I'm assuming that the general process will be roughly the same; the
>>> key difference is that bugs entered after October 1 will not be
>>> guaranteed to block entrance to Last Call.
>>>
>>> If there are suggestions as to how the process should be changed, I
>>> would suggest entering them as bugs on the Decision Policy:
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=HTML%20WG&component=working+group+Decision+Policy 
>>>
>>
>> Let me try this again:
>>
>> How will we designate comments that are to be treated as Last Call
>> comments in this email group? Do we use [Last Call Comment] in the
>> subject line or something in order to designate an item as a Last Call
>> Comment? Or should we wait until an official Last Call request is made?
>
> The intent is to get all Last Call comments entered into bugzilla, and 
> processed as bugs.
>
>> I'm not going to enter bugs into the bugzilla database starting
>> tomorrow, because I'll most likely handle a Last Call comment
>> differently than I would do a bug request. I'm willing to wait until the
>> Last Call is made, if that's what the co-chairs would prefer.
>
> Our intent is to treat Last Call comments as bug reports.
>

The problem with this is that not everyone is comfortable using Bugzilla.

>> I have also not received a definitive answer on submitting change
>> proposals as a non-member. And this one does have an open bug in the
>> bugzilla database.
>
> I agree with Laura's comment[1] there, and anticipate that it will be 
> incorporated into the next draft:
>
> "Non-members are encouraged to join the working group so they can fully
> participate in this process. But extenuating circumstances for not 
> joining the group will be considered by the Chairs on a case-by-case 
> basis."

This differs from the Decision Process.  And you didn't answer the 
question in the bug: why?

You all are acting as if people not wanting to be a member of the group, 
but wanting to provide commentary on HTML5, as if we're suspect. People 
participating are doing so because they want the best from the spec. You 
might assume the best, rather than the worst.

There could be any number of reasons why a person doesn't want to join, 
including personal preference. I won't join the group because you put 
demands on me that you're not willing to put on other members. But I do 
have comments I want to make.

A bug isn't an effective place to make more complex comments. But if I 
can't join the group, and you won't consider comments in this email list 
as Last Call comments, you're basically denying the right to 
participate, which is definitely contrary to W3C practices.

>>>>> - Sam Ruby
>>>>
>> Shelley
>
Shelley

> - Sam Ruby
>
> [1] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10524#c18
>
>
Received on Thursday, 30 September 2010 20:29:30 GMT

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