W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html-comments@w3.org > July 2010

Re: Fulscreen Tag Proposal

From: Paul Ellis <paul@ellisfoundation.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:20:37 -0700
Message-ID: <AANLkTilO1g0n3fVxVfarpMaQtUWFR3HObKuKHMHi6rUa@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ron Reiter <ron.reiter@gmail.com>
Cc: Daniel Hendrycks <kondo8@hotmail.com>, "public-html-comments@w3.org" <public-html-comments@w3.org>
Any solution that requires creating another window and opening a new
document would create a lot of issues that would not compare favorably with
any current popular web video plugin (Flash, Silverlight, etc). It would not
be a very seemless transition. The <video> resource from the parent page may
have downloaded hundreds of MB of data and then the new window would make a
new separate request for the same resource. Certainly the browsers could try
to aggressively cache video content for these situations but even that
wouldn't work in all cases (any HTTP connection that doesn't allow byte
range requests, e.g. HTTP 1.0), and it probably would not work very well for
resource constrained devices such as smartphones and tablets. This type of
hand-off would have to happen every time the user switched between
fullscreen and embedded mode as well.

I think the goal should be to enable a way for the current browsing/viewing
session to change context into a "fullscreen" mode. This fullscreen context
still needs to support all of the typical HTML elements for things like
custom video player controls.

My thinking is that there should be some DOM attribute that would toggle a
chromeless/fullscreen browsing state similar to Firefox's read-only
window.fullscreen. The display of the page content including the video would
be controlled/determined using CSS/JavaScript. The "SublimeVideo HTML5 Video
Player" (http://jilion.com/sublime/video) is a great example of this type of
player. This fullscreen viewing is experience is very comparable to current
video plug-ins. All that is missing is that it can not remove the browser
chrome. Some work would have to happen to keep this from being abused but
that type of problem has already been solved in Flash and Silverlight and
similar rules (e.g. users must initiate the fullscreen mode) would apply.


Paul Ellis

On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Ron Reiter <ron.reiter@gmail.com> wrote:

> I haven't noticed such a tag already exists for window.open.
> True fullscreen support needs to be added, for better hardware level
> support, such as other windowless plugins including Flash and Silverlight.
> The current fullscreen tag only maximizes the window.
> Maybe a tag called maximize can be added, to better define fullscreen mode.
> For example, maximize="borderless" will enable fullscreen with no borders,
> and maximize="hardware" will switch to hardware fullscreen mode. This mode
> could even turn the width and height attributes to specify and control
> hardware level resolution of the screen, instead of window dimensions.
> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 11:01 PM, Ron Reiter <ron.reiter@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The correct design would be to use a window-less application for desktop
>> applications, which then spawn windows using standard javascript and DOM
>> (window.open function).
>> http://www.pageresource.com/jscript/jwinopen.htm
>> <http://www.pageresource.com/jscript/jwinopen.htm>Attributes such as
>> width, height, scrollbars, toolbars, status bar, menubar, etc can be set.
>> Adding an attribute "fullscreen=yes" could enable you to open a fullscreen
>> window easily, using the currently implemented javascript support. That way,
>> you won't need to reconsider the implicatoins such a tag has.
>> Adding to your proposition, I suggest doing the opposite (which will
>> eventually lead to the correct design of your idea) and adding a seperate
>> DOCTYPE tag attribute called a "windowless application".
>> Examples:
>> <!DOCTYPE HTML windowless="true">
>> Since the DOCTYPE tag must be the first tag in an HTML document, browsers
>> could open window-less applications without a window, and allow such web
>> applications to use the standard javascript API to spawn windows.
>> With the addition of a fullscreen tag, one could configure a desktop
>> application to open a web application directly in fullscreen mode.
>> This capability enables HTML5 to be more flexible than any browser based
>> plugin in the world.
>> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Daniel Hendrycks <kondo8@hotmail.com>wrote:
>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:58:29 -0600, Ron Reiter <ron.reiter@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> I do think there is room for proposing tags for desktop applications
>>> I am proposing this for HTML5, which is rendered by desktop applications.
>>> I cannot really understand what you are saying, if you don't want HTML5 to
>>> interact with the device, then that is quite contrary to things that are in
>>> drafts for HTML5. Today, HTML Media Capture went in a draft phase, that
>>> interacts with the device; that could be a security concern, too (you
>>> mentioned security as an issue for the tag, earlier).
>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-html-media-capture-20100720/
>>> "This puts HTML in direct competition with other technologies intended
>>> for applications deployed over the Web, in particular Flash and
>>> Silverlight." -Ian Hickson
>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jan/0215.html
>>> As you can see, HTML5 is in competition with plug-ins, plug-ins can go in
>>> fullscreen. YouTube said HTML is not ready for YouTube, one of the reasons
>>> stated was: "HD video begs to be watched in full screen, but that has not
>>> historically been possible with pure HTML."
>>> There is a need for Fullscreen, I believe the syntax I gave is simple
>>> enough to make it possible.
>>> --
>>> Daniel Hendrycks <http://my.opera.com/DanielHendrycks/>
>> --
>> -- Ron
> --
> -- Ron
Received on Wednesday, 21 July 2010 10:23:09 UTC

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