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[Bug 10830] i18n comment : Please add support for rb

From: <bugzilla@jessica.w3.org>
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 02:21:47 +0000
To: public-html-bugzilla@w3.org
Message-Id: <E1RTlQB-0007l7-DV@jessica.w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10830

Murata <eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp> changed:

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--- Comment #62 from Murata <eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp> 2011-11-25 02:21:43 UTC ---
Here I try to provide a factual summary of this issue.   I hope 
that this makes clear that escalation to the WG is the only 
sensible way to go forward.

0) Overall 

The I18N WG has requested HTML5 to allow optional use of the rb element.
Fantasai, Simon Pieters, Koji Ishii, Addison Phillips, Leif Halvard Silli, and
I 
have the same opinion.  Ian Hickson is against.

1) Widely used?

The I18N WG and Ishii san believe that rb is very widely used, and have 
provided pointers to supporting evidence.

Yomiuri Online (very common newspaper in Japan)
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/

Automatic ruby programs
http://mt.adaptive-techs.com/httpadaptor/servlet/HttpAdaptor?.h0.=fp&.ui.=trial&.up.=&.ro.=kh&.st.=rb
http://www.hiragana.jp/

Ian claims that "in practice many pages don't actually use it (the
HTML definition of ruby was based on extensive research for real use
of ruby markup in the wild).", but did not provide any supporting
evidence.

2) Implemented?

Koji Ishii and I believe that the rb tag is widely implemented.

The support of the rb element in Internet Explorer is documented by 
Microsoft in http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff460533(v=VS.85).aspx.
See "2.2.3   [W3C-RUBY] Section 2.5, The rb element"

Ian Hixon claims "IE doesn't support <rb> (it ignores it)", but has not 
provide any supporting evidence.

The best way to make this point clear is to ask browser vendors 
in the HTML WG.

3) Useful or useless?

Fantasai, Simon Pieters, Koji Ishii, Addison Phillips, Leif Halvard Silli, and
I 
believe that rb is useful (at least sometimes).  Ian Hickson believes that 
it is always useless.

This point appears to be subjective, and nobody is likely to change
her or his opinion.  I even believe that such religuous debates are
possible for many other HTML5 tags.  Most notably, the dt element in 
definition lists.

When there is a religuous debate, the best approach is to hear 
the opinion from a wide group of experts, implementors, and users.
Dictatorship by the editor is simply not the right approach.

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