RE: HTML5 alternatives to table summary don't work in current browsers, and Screen Readers

At Steve F.'s request I've updated the tests to include Voice Over which
supports describedby on a table but apparently replaces the caption text
with it...  VO doesn't support Table Summary.

Full results here:
http://www.davidmacd.com/test/details.html

Cheers
David MacDonald

CanAdapt Solutions Inc.
  Adapting the web to all users
            Including those with disabilities
www.Can-Adapt.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Janina Sajka [mailto:janina@rednote.net] 
Sent: June-21-13 1:01 PM
To: public-html-a11y@w3.org
Subject: Re: HTML5 alternatives to table summary don't work in current
browsers, and Screen Readers

The current status of HTML 5 is CR. To change the spec would require a
return to Last Call. I'm not for that over table summary, and I doubt
whether the wider community would accept a return to LC over this.

In point of fact the TF's guidance on this point was rejected by the WG:

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0091.html

At this time our options are either:

1.)	Show two independent implementations of the spec, or
2.)	Remove this guidance from the spec.

I'm perfectly OK with #2. I agree it leaves a gap, but we've had a gap for
sometime already. Fortunately, the gap will soon be filled, namely when we
do our FPWD of ARIA 1.1 later this year. I'm for going forward, not
backward.

Just my 2 cents (American).

Janina

David MacDonald writes:
> Hi Richard
> 
>  
> 
> A small correction to your take on what I said in my post. I actually 
> did not make a recommendation to return to table Summary. I am simply 
> documenting that as we enter into recommendation status, the advice we 
> are providing to web authors fails WCAGs conformance requirement of 
> accessibility support. And the example techniques listed currently 
> don't help blind folks... even though web authors trust us to give 
> them useful advice.
> 
>  
> 
> There are certainly well documented disadvantages (and advantages) to 
> the Summary attribute but until AT catches up on replacements, and 
> they have had several years to do so, we are looking at another of 
> those awful gaps that work on paper but not in the real world for blind
folks.
> 
>  
> 
> Cheers
> 
> David MacDonald
> 
>  
> 
> CanAdapt Solutions Inc.
> 
>   Adapting the web to all users
> 
>             Including those with disabilities
> 
>  <http://www.can-adapt.com/> www.Can-Adapt.com
> 
>  
> 
> From: Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:schwer@us.ibm.com]
> Sent: June-21-13 10:48 AM
> To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org; public-html-a11y@w3.org
> Cc: Steve Faulkner; mick@nvaccess.org
> Subject: Re: HTML5 alternatives to table summary don't work in current 
> browsers, and Screen Readers
> 
>  
> 
> David,
> 
> I saw your post that you think summary should be reinstated because of 
> a JAWS and/or NVDA have a defect (it works in VoiceOver) does not 
> warrant going back to the hodge podge of attributes that were thrown 
> in at the end of HTML 4's release.
> 
> Let's stick with a consistent set of APIs (ARIA) that developers can 
> go to as much as possible for one stop shopping.
> 
> I have alerted Freedom Scientific of the defect and they will fix it. 
> I have copied Mick Curran at NVDA and hopefully they will also correct 
> the problem with IE and Firefox.
> 
> Mick, please see the following link:
> 
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2013AprJun/0089.html#st
> art89
> 
> We can't be writing specs. based on proprietary assistive technology 
> defects.
> 
> Rich
> 
>  
> 
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
> 

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
		Email:	janina@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair,	Protocols & Formats	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
	Indie UI			http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/

Received on Friday, 21 June 2013 20:27:59 UTC