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Re: Review of Section 7.1 by ARIA working group in PF

From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 19:18:10 -0400
To: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
Cc: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>, "Michael Cooper (cooper@w3.org)" <cooper@w3.org>, "Edward O'Connor" <eoconnor@apple.com>, "public-html-a11y@w3.org" <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <20121009231810.GJ4386@concerto.rednote.net>
Paul:

I'll take your direct question as directed to the respective actionees,
noting (again) that their due date is this coming Thursday. A tickler is
certainly in order.

There were other items agreed, however, not captured in action items. I
believe Ted agreed several changes that would be good to have in place
before Thursday's TF call, e.g. "printer" rather than "screen reader," Ted?

Janina

Paul Cotton writes:
> > [NEW] ACTION: cynthia to file HTML bug about methods that should fail when an element has @hidden set [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
> >[NEW] ACTION: MichaelC to file two HTML defects on his raised issues: 1) to determine whether @hidden overrides all CSS, and 2) to determine where focus goes when a focused element becomes hidden. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
> 
> Have these two actions items been done?
> 
> /paulc
> 
> Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
> Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Janina Sajka [mailto:janina@rednote.net] 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 6:45 PM
> To: Sam Ruby
> Cc: Paul Cotton; Edward O'Connor; public-html-a11y@w3.org; Richard Schwerdtfeger
> Subject: Re: Review of Section 7.1 by ARIA working group in PF
> 
> Sam, Paul:
> 
> Looking just now at the (current) 9 October editor's draft:
> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/textFieldSelection.html#the-hidden-attribute
> 
> I do not see changes following on the discussion at the TF call last
> week:
> http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-html-a11y-minutes.html#item02
> 
> However, I also see actions on several individuals relating to Sec 7.1 recorded during that call that aren't due until Thursday.
> 
> So, it seems clear we need to update progress again this week.
> 
> Janina
> 
> 
> 
> Sam Ruby writes:
> > On 10/09/2012 02:43 PM, Paul Cotton wrote:
> > >Ted
> > >
> > >Richard’s email below asks for an additional change related ISSUE-204.
> > >Can you reply and or let us know if you are planning to make the 
> > >suggested change?
> > 
> > This is not related to issue 204, and Richard has now opened a separate bug:
> > 
> > https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19405
> > 
> > >/paulc
> > >
> > >Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> > >17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
> > >Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
> > 
> > - Sam Ruby
> > 
> > >*From:*Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:schwer@us.ibm.com]
> > >*Sent:* Wednesday, October 03, 2012 6:05 PM
> > >*To:* Edward O'Connor
> > >*Cc:* public-html-a11y@w3.org
> > >*Subject:* Re: Review of Section 7.1 by ARIA working group in PF
> > >
> > >
> > >Rich Schwerdtfeger
> > >
> > >"Edward O'Connor" <eoconnor@apple.com <mailto:eoconnor@apple.com>> 
> > >wrote on 10/02/2012 07:03:48 PM:
> > >
> > >>From: "Edward O'Connor" <eoconnor@apple.com 
> > >><mailto:eoconnor@apple.com>> To:public-html-a11y@w3.org 
> > >><mailto:public-html-a11y@w3.org>,
> > >>Date: 10/02/2012 07:04 PM
> > >>Subject: Re: Review of Section 7.1 by ARIA working group in PF
> > >>
> > >>Hi Rich,
> > >>
> > >>You wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> 1. We read this text and we don't believe this text was agreed 
> > >>> upon by anyone and we have doubts this is enforceable[…]
> > >>
> > >>This text predates the ISSUE-204 discussion; in fact, it's been in 
> > >>the spec since March 2010:
> > >>
> > >>http://html5.org/r/4846
> > >>
> > >>> From an accessibility perspective it does not really hurt us[…]
> > >>
> > >>OK. Given that, can you live with that paragraph it currently 
> > >>stands? If not, would it help if the example were changed from 
> > >>screen readers to, say, printers?
> > >>
> > >yes, if you were to change this to printers that would be excellent!
> > >
> > >>> 2. […] I don't have an issue with it[…]
> > >>
> > >>OK.
> > >>
> > >>> 4. This text refers to content being active but what is not clear 
> > >>> is whether "active" hidden text would appear in the tab order. We 
> > >>> don't believe that is the case but it needs to be stated somewhere.
> > >>
> > >>OK. Do you have suggested text to make that clear?
> > >
> > >Yes. I would suggest changing the following text:
> > >
> > >"Elements in a section hidden by the hidden 
> > ><http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/editing.html#the-hidden-attribute> 
> > >attribute are still active, e.g. scripts and form controls in such 
> > >sections still execute and submit respectively. Only their 
> > >presentation to the user changes."
> > >
> > >To:
> > >Elements in a section hidden by the hidden 
> > ><http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/editing.html#the-hidden-attribute> 
> > >attribute are still active, e.g. scripts and form controls in such 
> > >sections still execute and submit respectively. Only their 
> > >presentation to the user changes. Although active, content hidden by 
> > >the hidden 
> > ><http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/editing.html#the-hidden-attribute> attribute is not focusable and does not participate in sequential focus navigation.
> > >
> > >
> > >>> For example, what happens when you have <div tabindex="0" hidden>.
> > >>> Does the div appear in the tab order?
> > >>
> > >>Did you try that in browsers? What happened?
> > >>
> > >
> > >Yes, I tried it using Firefox and Chrome and both skipped the hidden 
> > >div. Safari (Version 6.0.1 (7536.26.14)) on Mac OSX did not allow me 
> > >to tab to any of the active elements whether they were visible or 
> > >hidden. I am not sure why. hidden does not appear to work in IE9.0.8. 
> > >Perhaps there is a mode I need to select.
> > >
> > >/(See attached file: hiddenactive.html)/
> > >>
> > >>Thanks,
> > >>Ted
> > >>
> > >
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
> 			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
> 		Email:	janina@rednote.net
> 
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org
> 
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair,	Protocols & Formats	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
> 	Indie UI			http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
> 

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
		Email:	janina@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair,	Protocols & Formats	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
	Indie UI			http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
Received on Tuesday, 9 October 2012 23:18:39 GMT

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