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RE: Review of Section 7.1 by ARIA working group in PF

From: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 23:01:45 +0000
To: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>, "Michael Cooper (cooper@w3.org)" <cooper@w3.org>
CC: Edward O'Connor <eoconnor@apple.com>, "public-html-a11y@w3.org" <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <AB5704B0EEC35B4691114DC04366B37F16B6BE4A@TK5EX14MBXC289.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
> [NEW] ACTION: cynthia to file HTML bug about methods that should fail when an element has @hidden set [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
>[NEW] ACTION: MichaelC to file two HTML defects on his raised issues: 1) to determine whether @hidden overrides all CSS, and 2) to determine where focus goes when a focused element becomes hidden. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

Have these two actions items been done?

/paulc

Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329


-----Original Message-----
From: Janina Sajka [mailto:janina@rednote.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 6:45 PM
To: Sam Ruby
Cc: Paul Cotton; Edward O'Connor; public-html-a11y@w3.org; Richard Schwerdtfeger
Subject: Re: Review of Section 7.1 by ARIA working group in PF

Sam, Paul:

Looking just now at the (current) 9 October editor's draft:
http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/textFieldSelection.html#the-hidden-attribute


I do not see changes following on the discussion at the TF call last
week:
http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-html-a11y-minutes.html#item02


However, I also see actions on several individuals relating to Sec 7.1 recorded during that call that aren't due until Thursday.

So, it seems clear we need to update progress again this week.

Janina



Sam Ruby writes:
> On 10/09/2012 02:43 PM, Paul Cotton wrote:
> >Ted
> >
> >Richard’s email below asks for an additional change related ISSUE-204.
> >Can you reply and or let us know if you are planning to make the 
> >suggested change?
> 
> This is not related to issue 204, and Richard has now opened a separate bug:
> 
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19405

> 
> >/paulc
> >
> >Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> >17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
> >Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
> 
> - Sam Ruby
> 
> >*From:*Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:schwer@us.ibm.com]
> >*Sent:* Wednesday, October 03, 2012 6:05 PM
> >*To:* Edward O'Connor
> >*Cc:* public-html-a11y@w3.org
> >*Subject:* Re: Review of Section 7.1 by ARIA working group in PF
> >
> >
> >Rich Schwerdtfeger
> >
> >"Edward O'Connor" <eoconnor@apple.com <mailto:eoconnor@apple.com>> 
> >wrote on 10/02/2012 07:03:48 PM:
> >
> >>From: "Edward O'Connor" <eoconnor@apple.com 
> >><mailto:eoconnor@apple.com>> To:public-html-a11y@w3.org 
> >><mailto:public-html-a11y@w3.org>,
> >>Date: 10/02/2012 07:04 PM
> >>Subject: Re: Review of Section 7.1 by ARIA working group in PF
> >>
> >>Hi Rich,
> >>
> >>You wrote:
> >>
> >>> 1. We read this text and we don't believe this text was agreed 
> >>> upon by anyone and we have doubts this is enforceable[…]
> >>
> >>This text predates the ISSUE-204 discussion; in fact, it's been in 
> >>the spec since March 2010:
> >>
> >>http://html5.org/r/4846

> >>
> >>> From an accessibility perspective it does not really hurt us[…]
> >>
> >>OK. Given that, can you live with that paragraph it currently 
> >>stands? If not, would it help if the example were changed from 
> >>screen readers to, say, printers?
> >>
> >yes, if you were to change this to printers that would be excellent!
> >
> >>> 2. […] I don't have an issue with it[…]
> >>
> >>OK.
> >>
> >>> 4. This text refers to content being active but what is not clear 
> >>> is whether "active" hidden text would appear in the tab order. We 
> >>> don't believe that is the case but it needs to be stated somewhere.
> >>
> >>OK. Do you have suggested text to make that clear?
> >
> >Yes. I would suggest changing the following text:
> >
> >"Elements in a section hidden by the hidden 
> ><http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/editing.html#the-hidden-attribute> 
> >attribute are still active, e.g. scripts and form controls in such 
> >sections still execute and submit respectively. Only their 
> >presentation to the user changes."
> >
> >To:
> >Elements in a section hidden by the hidden 
> ><http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/editing.html#the-hidden-attribute> 
> >attribute are still active, e.g. scripts and form controls in such 
> >sections still execute and submit respectively. Only their 
> >presentation to the user changes. Although active, content hidden by 
> >the hidden 
> ><http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/editing.html#the-hidden-attribute> attribute is not focusable and does not participate in sequential focus navigation.
> >
> >
> >>> For example, what happens when you have <div tabindex="0" hidden>.
> >>> Does the div appear in the tab order?
> >>
> >>Did you try that in browsers? What happened?
> >>
> >
> >Yes, I tried it using Firefox and Chrome and both skipped the hidden 
> >div. Safari (Version 6.0.1 (7536.26.14)) on Mac OSX did not allow me 
> >to tab to any of the active elements whether they were visible or 
> >hidden. I am not sure why. hidden does not appear to work in IE9.0.8. 
> >Perhaps there is a mode I need to select.
> >
> >/(See attached file: hiddenactive.html)/
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>Ted
> >>
> >

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
		Email:	janina@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org


The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair,	Protocols & Formats	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf

	Indie UI			http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/



Received on Tuesday, 9 October 2012 23:02:28 GMT

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