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RE: [media] progress on video transcript discussion

From: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:48:48 +0000
To: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>, Edward O'Connor <eoconnor@apple.com>, "Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> (janina@rednote.net)" <janina@rednote.net>
CC: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, "chaals@opera.com" <chaals@opera.com>, Eric Carlson <eric.carlson@apple.com>
Message-ID: <AB5704B0EEC35B4691114DC04366B37F05EB22@TK5EX14MBXC121.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
> OK, let's see if we can get consensus. :-)

Where do we stand on a consensus proposal for ISSUE-194: full-transcript?   
http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-194 

/paulc

Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329


-----Original Message-----
From: Silvia Pfeiffer [mailto:silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 6:47 PM
To: John Foliot
Cc: David MacDonald; HTML Accessibility Task Force; Edward O'Connor; chaals@opera.com; Eric Carlson
Subject: Re: [media] progress on video transcript discussion

On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 1:54 AM, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca> wrote:
> Silvia Pfeiffer wrote:
>>
>> OK, sorry, I mis-wrote. I am using ARIA only where blind and 
>> vision-impaired users need it. For all other needs I have proposed a 
>> generic solution.
>>
>> When the transcript is not visible, there is a link.
>> When the transcript is visible, they can see it and don't need any 
>> more notice.
>> So, there is no problem.
>
>
> Here is a use-case where this is a problem:
>
> <div>
> <video src="video.mpg" aria-label="video with transcript below"
> transcript="@this_page#transcript"></video>
>
> <a href="transcript.html" hidden>Transcript</a>
>
> *or*
>
> <a href="transcript.html" style="margin-left:-999px; position:
> absolute;">Transcript</a>
>
> *or*
>
> <a href="transcript.html" style="display:none;">Transcript</a>
>
> *or {shudder}*
>
> <a href="transcript.html" aria-hidden="true">Transcript</a>


In all these use cases, the sighted user sees no transcript either, so the best thing to do here is to discourage this usage completely since it is not good for ANY user.

If it happens, however, then the aria-label attribute needs to say aria-label="transcript available" and the @transcript=URL will point to it, exposed in the context menu, button on the player of whichever suits the video player best.

It is therefore a use case that is covered with my suggestion.


> Here is another troubling use-case:
>
> <video src="video.mpg" transcript="@this_page#transcript"></video>
>
> <p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet...</p>
> <p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet...</p>
> <p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet...</p>
> <p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet...</p>
> <p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet...</p>
> <p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet...</p>
>
> <footer style="font-size: 8px;">Download the <a 
> href="transcript.html">transcript</a> here | <a 
> href="privacy.html">Privacy Policy</a> | {etc.}</footer>
>
> Problems:
> 1) the cut and paste concern we continue to have


There is a @transcript=URL attribute in the video, which will be cut and pasted as well. Thus my suggestion to encourage authors to only use absolute URLs in this attribute. Then we avoid this problem.


> 2) users with low vision who are using a screen magnifier that does 
> not render the entire screen in view, but rather a portion of that 
> screen. The distance between the video element and the link to the 
> transcript makes discovery problematic (compounded by the fact that in 
> this scenario, the link has been 'dumped' into the footer along with 
> all the other pesky stuff like copyright notice and privacy statement; 
> is rendered as smaller text; and generally treated as a necessary 
> evil)
>
> Even in this use-case, if we applied an aria linkage for blind users, 
> it would not solve the problem for the low-vision user who is using a 
> screen magnifier and not a screen reader.

Indeed - the aria attributes don't help, but the @transcript=URL attribute solves this use case, too.



>> >> Since it is now very clearly a
>> >> link, it is indeed possible for developers to experiment with
>> buttons
>> >> or other interaction mechanisms on the video player if they want to.
>> >> So, I think it meets the requirement that you're posing.
>> >
>> > Yes, it does indeed.
>>
>> Well, this is what I care about. :-)
>
> And this is indeed the most important common-ground we share, so do 
> not become frustrated by my responses.

OK, let's see if we can get consensus. :-)

Cheers,
Silvia.
Received on Wednesday, 13 June 2012 14:49:38 UTC

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