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Re: Fwd: ISSUE-201: Aligning the two change proposals

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:09:42 +0100
Message-ID: <CA+ri+V=Vrte-19iUoOtQ0iq+oxq=dZMALpeDqLnq_sH3neutHw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
Cc: janina@rednote.net, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Hi Rich,

So are you suggesting the allowable roles should be reduced or disallowed
altogether?


regards
Steve



On 12 July 2012 16:03, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com> wrote:

> Steve,
>
> The roles you list exclude global most global states and properties:
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/states_and_properties#global_states
>
> Regions also support the expanded states:
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#region
>
> So, the list of roles provided will not meet ARIA specs. without ensuring
> that the applicable.
>
> Rich
>
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>
> [image: Inactive hide details for Steve Faulkner ---07/12/2012 09:00:13
> AM------------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Steve Faulkn]Steve
> Faulkner ---07/12/2012 09:00:13 AM------------- Forwarded message
> ---------- From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
>
> From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
> To: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>,
> Cc: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
> Date: 07/12/2012 09:00 AM
> Subject: Fwd: ISSUE-201: Aligning the two change proposals
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Steve Faulkner* <*faulkner.steve@gmail.com*<faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
> >
> Date: 12 July 2012 11:53
> Subject: Re: ISSUE-201: Aligning the two change proposals
> To: Maciej Stachowiak <*mjs@apple.com* <mjs@apple.com>>
> Cc: Paul Cotton <*Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com* <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>>,
> Sam Ruby <*rubys@intertwingly.net* <rubys@intertwingly.net>>, *
> public-html@w3.org* <public-html@w3.org>, Edward O'Connor <*
> eoconnor@apple.com* <eoconnor@apple.com>>
>
>
> I over estimated the time it would take me to produce a CP based on Ted's
> current CP
>
> here it is:*
> **http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hitregions*<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hitregions>
>
> Note Ted's proposal remains unchanged excpet for the addition of the
> following:
>
>
> 1. in the section:
> Additional rationale for addHitRegion and the Path object (*
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hitregions*<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hitregions>
> )
>
>    *ADDED start*
>
>    As the 'lightweight objects which simply provide a label and a
>    WAI-ARIA role' are not focusable and cannot have author assigned states and
>    properties, the allowed ARIA roles should be limited to a subset of the non
>    interactive ARIA roles that do not require or benefit from the addition of
>    states and properties.
>
>    For example, A region with role=button could not be considered
>    accessible unless it is able to receive focus. Or a role=checkbox has a
>    required state of aria-checked, and must be able to recieve focus for
>    device indepedent operation, so it makes not sense to allow such roles on
>    lightweight objects.
>
>       *ADDED end*
>
>
>
>
> 2 in the section
> Details (*
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hitregions#Details*<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hitregions#Details>
> )
>
>
> Naturally changes to the proposed text, of an editorial nature, are at the
> discretion of the editor.
>
> *ADDED start*
>
> In addition define the ARIA roles that many be assigned to unbacked hit
> regions:
>
> *ARIA role restrictions for unbacked hit regions*
>
> Unbacked hit regions cannot be focusable and cannot have the necessary
> states and properties assigned to adequately convey the semantics of
> interactive controls. Author may assign the following roles using the
> addHitRegion() > role() method.For all interactive controls associate a hit
> region with an HTML element using the addHitRegion() > control() method.
>
> *subset of document structure roles*
>
>    - article
>    - group
>    - note
>    - region
>    - separator
>
>
> *landmark roles*
>
>    - application
>    - banner
>    - complementary
>    - contentinfo
>    - form
>    - main
>    - navigation
>    - search
>
>
> *ADDED end*
>
>
>
> On 11 July 2012 22:09, Maciej Stachowiak <*mjs@apple.com* <mjs@apple.com>>
> wrote:
>
>
>    Can you offer a date by which you could have a new CP ready?
>
>     - Maciej
>
>    On Jul 11, 2012, at 5:35 AM, Steve Faulkner <*faulkner.steve@gmail.com*<faulkner.steve@gmail.com>>
>    wrote:
>    Hi chairs,
>
>       As we don't appear to be able to reach consensus on the 'unbacked
>       regions' aspect of ted's proposal.
>       Wondering if it makes sense for me to start work on a CP?
>
>
>
>       regards
>       SteveF
>
>       On 6 July 2012 08:16, Steve Faulkner <*faulkner.steve@gmail.com*<faulkner.steve@gmail.com>>
>       wrote:
>          Hi Ted,
>
>          thank you for persevering.
>
>          you wrote:
>
>          "Each hit region has an associated control, which is either an
>          element or
>          an unbacked region description. You pass in the control when you
>          call
>          addHitRegion()."
>
>          reading *
>          http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html#hit-regions
>          *<http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html#hit-regions>
>
>          to clarify, regions only have a control when they have an
>          associated element. so unbacked regions don't have a control right?
>
>          As unbacked regions cannt be focusable and cannot have
>          additional author defined properties it does not make any sense for ARIA
>          roles that are for interactive objects.
>
>          If the list of roles allowed on unbacked regions is constrained
>          to those that make sense, then I could live with the rest of the concept.
>
>          So I suggest either the list of roles that can be used or the
>          list of roles that cannot be used be defined so no one is under any
>          illusion that unbacked regions can make representations of controls, for
>          example a button, accessible.
>
>          Below is a suggested list of allowed ARIA roles:
>
>          subset of document structure roles
>             - *article* <http://roles/#article>
>             - *group* <http://roles/#group>
>             - *note* <http://roles/#note>
>             - *region* <http://roles/#region>
>             - *separator* <http://roles/#separator>
>          landmark roles*
>          * <http://roles/#application>
>             - *application* <http://roles/#application>
>             - *banner* <http://roles/#banner>
>             - *complementary* <http://roles/#complementary>
>             - *contentinfo* <http://roles/#contentinfo>
>             - *form* <http://roles/#form>
>             - *main* <http://roles/#main>
>             - *navigation* <http://roles/#navigation>
>             - *search* <http://roles/#search>
>
>          Is this something you are amenable to adding to your CP?
>
>
>          reegards
>          Stevef
>
>
>
>          On 6 July 2012 00:02, Edward O'Connor <*eoconnor@apple.com*<eoconnor@apple.com>>
>          wrote:
>             Hi Steve,
>
>             You wrote:
>
>             > what is the source of the note? Is it in your CP?
>
>             It's from r7029, which is one of the revisions my CP aims to
>             restore to
>             the W3C version of the spec.
>
>             > How is the region associated with the control since the
>             region can
>             > have no properties added which define a relationship
>             between them?
>
>             Each hit region has an associated control, which is either an
>             element or
>             an unbacked region description. You pass in the control when
>             you call
>             addHitRegion(). Is this unclear in the spec text?
>
>             > Soon as an author wants to go beyond simple grouping
>             objects, they can
>             > no longer use the lightweight objects anyway as no
>             relationship
>             > properties can be added to the lightweight objects.
>
>             We should make the easy things easy and the hard things
>             possible.
>             Allowing hit regions to be associated with either unbacked
>             region
>             descriptions or elements allows for this: if you have a
>             complex thing
>             which requires WAI-ARIA states and properties to describe,
>             use an
>             element. If not, use an unbacked region description.
>
>
>             HTH,
>             Ted
>
>
>
>          --
>          with regards
>
>          Steve Faulkner
>          Technical Director - TPG
>          *
>          **www.paciellogroup.com* <http://www.paciellogroup.com/> | *
>          www.HTML5accessibility.com* <http://www.html5accessibility.com/> |
>          *www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner*<http://www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner>
>          HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives - *
>          dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/*<http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/>
>          Web Accessibility Toolbar - *www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
>          * <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
>
>
>
>       --
>       with regards
>
>       Steve Faulkner
>       Technical Director - TPG
>       *
>       **www.paciellogroup.com* <http://www.paciellogroup.com/> | *
>       www.HTML5accessibility.com* <http://www.html5accessibility.com/> | *
>       www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner*<http://www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner>
>       HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives - *
>       dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/*<http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/>
>       Web Accessibility Toolbar - *www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
>       * <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
>
>
>
>
> --
> with regards
>
> Steve Faulkner
> Technical Director - TPG
> *
> **www.paciellogroup.com* <http://www.paciellogroup.com/> | *
> www.HTML5accessibility.com* <http://www.html5accessibility.com/> | *
> www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner* <http://www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner>
> HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives - *
> dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/*<http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/>
> Web Accessibility Toolbar - *www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
> * <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
>
>
>
>
> --
> with regards
>
> Steve Faulkner
> Technical Director - TPG
> *
> **www.paciellogroup.com* <http://www.paciellogroup.com/> | *
> www.HTML5accessibility.com* <http://www.html5accessibility.com/> | *
> www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner* <http://www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner>
> HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives - *
> dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/*<http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/>
> Web Accessibility Toolbar - *www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
> * <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
>
>


-- 
with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG

www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com |
www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner
HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/
Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html


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Received on Thursday, 12 July 2012 15:10:49 GMT

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