W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html-a11y@w3.org > August 2012

Re: why are we pursuing this idea? (was: Implementation Details request on Issue 204 Decision)

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 11:50:22 +0200
To: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>
Cc: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, Chaals McCathieNevile <w3b@chaals.com>, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, public-html@w3.org, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20120822115022433151.73979799@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis, Wed, 22 Aug 2012 00:21:42 +0100:
> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:17 AM, Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
>> Heh! That was in fact cool to hear. So all NVDA is lacking is the
>> announcement! Authors could in fact create polyfills for the
>> announcement, e.g. via aria-label or aria-labelledby, so that user can
>> use it.
> 
> They could, but not without adversely impacting usability in UA/AT
> combinations that already notify users about longdesc (e.g. Firefox +
> JAWS).

That is true. It would have to be short and pregnant, to not disturb 
too much. Thus, users would have *know* the impact of hearing e.g. 
"Description link." May be the page could contain a option to *add* 
that text to the @alt text - a scripted on/off option. Or just some 
information saying: "The sentence 'Description link.' in the 
alternative text indicates there is a longdesc link available."

Sidepoint: I have previously argued in favor of <a role=presentation>. 
And there are in fact no difference between an img whose longdesc URL 
can be activated if the user by accident hits the Enter key - and a 
link with role=presentation. It is thus interesting if NVDA developers 
think it is OK to not make the user aware that the img has a longdesc 
link that the user could trigger by accident.

PS. Come to think about it: May be NVDA halfway supports the 
aria-describedby longdesc link as well, then ... ?

>>>> * He also says that 'If we do implement this, it will only be as a
>>>> temporary solution because of the lack of support in current accessible
>>>> browsers'. This is a technical argument. But it sounds like a incorrect
>>>> technical argument. At least today - 2 years later - where we hear that
>>>> Firefox *does* support @longdesc, in the accessibility API - which I
>>>> assume that NVDA would use.
>>> 
>>> I think by support James means "discoverable to *all* users, not just
>>> users of assistive technology". So just having a hook in the
>>> accessibility API doesn't count.
>> 
>> Yes. But the world is not going to move if we are all waiting on each
>> others.
> 
> James may feel that @longdesc is not going to be worth discovering or
> providing if it's not universally discoverable.

Yup. I feel he is not correct there.

> I doubt Firefox is waiting on NVDA here; after all JAWS was exposing
> @longdesc long before NVDA.

I agree - Firefox follows its own track. But if I have understood Jonas 
correctly previously, then the support is not new. It is just that they 
have 'aria-describedby-ified' their @longdesc implementation a little 
bit, lately. If I got it right.
-- 
leif halvard silli
Received on Wednesday, 22 August 2012 09:51:14 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Wednesday, 22 August 2012 09:51:14 GMT