W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html-a11y@w3.org > April 2012

RE: Finalizing an Issue-204 CP

From: Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 21:54:29 +0000
To: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
CC: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>, Joshue O Connor <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>, Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org>, "david100@sympatico.ca" <david100@sympatico.ca>, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>, James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>, Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc>, Edward O'Connor <eoconnor@apple.com>, Matthew Turvey <mcturvey@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1801F4DC51913E4CA721108367BC982E056C3DB8@CH1PRD0310MB369.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
This assertion came from Jonas, Edward and Matt's proposal. I've added them for their comment on this issue.

Edward, Jonas, Matt, there is some background info in my last mail to the list, here:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Apr/0158.html 

-----Original Message-----
From: Leif Halvard Silli [mailto:xn--mlform-iua@målform.no] 
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 2:07 AM
To: Cynthia Shelly
Cc: Laura Carlson; Janina Sajka; HTML Accessibility Task Force; John Foliot; Joshue O Connor; Judy Brewer; david100@sympatico.ca; Richard Schwerdtfeger; James Nurthen; Leif Halvard Silli; Jonas Sicking
Subject: RE: Finalizing an Issue-204 CP

Cynthia Shelly, Thu, 19 Apr 2012 23:25:41 +0000:
> OK, I think I'm close.  
> 
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Correct_Hidden_Attribute_Section_v2#Accessibility_API_mappings
> 
> 1) rewrote summary to talk more about @hidden being simpler than CSS, 
> rather than @aria-describedby being simpler than something else

I would like to have more clarity here. Firstly, I don't consider @hidden simpler than CSS:

* What if one does p[hidden]{display:block;visibility:visible} ?
  Do AT users then get to see it too, or do they not? I suppose they
  don't. And so one must use JavaScript to interactively show it to
  AT users.

* For contrast, if one does p.hidden{display:block;visibility:visible}
  (and the element does not have the @hidden attribute), then there is
  no doubt that all audiences will see it. This seems simpler

OTOH: What "complicates" the matter is that *ARIA* says that, in the case of p{display:none}, then one MUST *also* use <p aria-hidden="true"> in the HTML:

   ]] Authors MUST set aria-hidden="true" on content that is not
      displayed, regardless of the mechanism used to hide it. [[
      http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/complete#aria-hidden

So, if @hidden simplifies something, then it isn't, in my opinion, related to CSS but to ARIA: It appears simpler to just operate with a single @hidden attribute, compared with the alternative - which is to use aria-hidden="true" in combination with another hiding method - such as CSS.

(Btw, when I look at that CP now, then it doesn't even mention
aria-hidden="true".)

Could you change this - along the above lines - so that it says that @hidden is simpler than the alternative - which - to put it as brief as possible - is  
    [aria-hidden="true"]{display:none}
--
Leif H Silli
Received on Friday, 20 April 2012 21:55:19 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Friday, 27 April 2012 04:42:58 GMT