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Re: ISSUE-122 shalott-example: Call for revisions

From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> (janina@rednote.net) <janina@rednote.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 13:34:27 -0500
To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
Cc: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, "Michael Cooper (cooper@w3.org)" <cooper@w3.org>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20110210183427.GK6303@sonata.rednote.net>
Hi, All:

Adding Judy to the cc's ...

Laura Carlson writes:
> Hi Paul and everyone,
> 
> > Does the A11Y TF have a preference between the following two change
> > proposals:
> >
> > http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/purely_decorative_images
> > http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/TextAlternativesIssue122
> >
> > or do you simply want both proposals dealt with by the WG?
> 

I would like the TF to revisit this. Is that acceptable? I think we can
do it in a tight timeline, by end of the coming week.

Additional comments below.

> Maciej has said that my proposal for HTML-ISSUE-122 [1] is larger in
> scope than that of the 122 issue.
> 

I believe Maciej is correct. The conflated issue, as I see it,  is the policy question
of where accessibility guidance should reside in W3C space.
Historically, this has been gathered mainly under WAI for all W3C specs.
It's a current question for the WAI-CG especially because of Steve
Faulkner's document on use of alt.

> So instead, I have requested that the HTML Chairs apply my issue 122
> proposal to the third question [2] of alt HTML-ISSUE-31, as it would
> be a better fit; is an applicable and relevant solution; and is based
> on the third draft deliverable [3] of HTML-Action-54 [4] which is
> bound to alt HTML-ISSUE-31.
> 
> Maciej said that the Chairs will discuss it [5]. (For details please
> refer to the previous messages in this thread).
> 
> That leaves two proposals for HTML-ISSUE-122. Between Steve's proposal
> [6] and Gregory's proposal [7], I would support Steve's as he
> addresses both of the bugs [8] [9] that Ian raised. Gregory's proposal
> misses half of the issue. Gregory's proposal talks about supplying
> text alternatives for purely decorative images but does not address
> providing text alternatives for thematic images.
> 
> Steve's HTML-ISSUE-122 proposal addresses purely decorative images as
> well as images that "enhance the themes or subject matter of the page
> content". His solution allows that thematic images may be allowed to
> have text alternatives. Hixie wanted to make it nonconforming for
> authors to provide text alternatives for these middle level type
> images. For more info check out both bugs that Hixie filed and
> escalated to issue 122.
> 

Gregory's proposal implements the decision we made during TPAC. If that
decision missed a key consideration, which is what I hear Laura saying,
I think the TF could resolve the situation pretty quickly, once we're
focused on it.

Janina

> Best Regards,
> Laura
> 
> [1] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/TextAlternativesIssue122
> [2] That question is:  "Where/who will define requirements on the
> possible values of text alternative examples?".
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElementSurveyConformaceChoices#3._Text_Alternative_Examples_Question:_.22Where.2Fwho_will_define_requirements_on_the_possible_values_of_text_alternatives_examples.3F.22
> [3] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Action54AltAttributeThirdDraft
> [4] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54
> [5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0174.html
> [6] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/thematicimages
> [7] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/purely_decorative_images
> [8] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9081
> [9] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9081
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/10/11, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >> both impying that there are only 2 what about  Change Proposal: Purely
> >> Decorative Images (Section
> >> 4.8.1.1.7)<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/purely_decorative_images>
> >> - by Gregory J. Rosmaita<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:Grosmai> ?
> >
> > Does the A11Y TF have a preference between the following two change
> > proposals:
> >
> > http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/purely_decorative_images
> > http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/TextAlternativesIssue122
> >
> > or do you simply want both proposals dealt with by the WG?
> >
> > /paulc
> >
> > Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> > 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
> > Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
> >
> > From: Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:18 AM
> > To: Maciej Stachowiak
> > Cc: HTML WG; Sam Ruby; Paul Cotton
> > Subject: Re: ISSUE-122 shalott-example: Call for revisions
> >
> > Could i get an answer back from the chairs on the questions below prior to
> > the february 14 cuttof date?
> >
> > regards
> > stevef
> > On 8 February 2011 10:25, Steve Faulkner
> > <faulkner.steve@gmail.com<mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Hi Maciej,
> >
> > you wrote:
> > "The Chairs have reviewed the proposals for ISSUE-122 shalott-example, and
> > find them both wanting as written."
> > both impying that there are only 2 what about  Change Proposal: Purely
> > Decorative Images (Section
> > 4.8.1.1.7)<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/purely_decorative_images>
> > - by Gregory J. Rosmaita<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:Grosmai> ?
> >
> >
> > anyway I have updated my change proposal
> > http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/thematicimages#Details
> >
> > can you tell me whether the udpate has chnaged the chairs view that it is
> > "wanting as written" if not can you please exaplin what is wanting.
> >
> > regards
> > stevef
> >
> > On 7 February 2011 19:12, Maciej Stachowiak
> > <mjs@apple.com<mailto:mjs@apple.com>> wrote:
> >
> > The Chairs have reviewed the proposals for ISSUE-122 shalott-example, and
> > find them both wanting as written. If they are not updated within a week, by
> > February 14, 2011, they will be dropped from consideration. If no proposals
> > remain, the issue will be closed without prejudice.
> >
> > * Steve's null Change Proposal does not apply a consistent resolution to all
> > WG drafts, as previously mentioned by the chairs:
> > <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/thematicimages>.
> >
> > * Laura's proposal to remove text alternative examples goes considerably
> > beyond the scope of the issue, in the judgment of the chairs
> > <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/TextAlternativesIssue122>.
> > The original scope of the issue was about the details of one particular
> > example. This proposal removes all accessibility advice for textual
> > equivalents, and in the course of doing so entirely deletes a WG draft. It
> > is reasonable to propose this, but not as part of this narrow issue. We
> > offer the following options:
> >
> >   ** Revise the Change Proposal to fit the narrower scope of ISSUE-122 (just
> > the one example that was at issue).
> >
> >   ** File a bug requesting the changes in the proposal, and if necessary
> > escalate it. It will then be treated as its own issue.
> >
> > It's fine to do either or both of these things (or none if there is no
> > desire to pursue the issue further).
> >
> > Regards,
> > Maciej
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > with regards
> >
> > Steve Faulkner
> > Technical Director - TPG
> >
> > www.paciellogroup.com<http://www.paciellogroup.com> |
> > www.HTML5accessibility.com<http://www.HTML5accessibility.com> |
> > www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner<http://www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner>
> > HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
> > dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/<http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/>
> > Web Accessibility Toolbar -
> > www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
> > <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > with regards
> >
> > Steve Faulkner
> > Technical Director - TPG
> >
> > www.paciellogroup.com<http://www.paciellogroup.com> |
> > www.HTML5accessibility.com<http://www.HTML5accessibility.com> |
> > www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner<http://www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner>
> > HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
> > dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/<http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/>
> > Web Accessibility Toolbar -
> > www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
> > <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Laura L. Carlson

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
		sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net

Chair, Open Accessibility	janina@a11y.org	
Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org

Chair, Protocols & Formats
Web Accessibility Initiative	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
Received on Thursday, 10 February 2011 18:35:48 GMT

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