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Re: summarization information delivery options: attribute or element

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 14:11:12 +0100
To: Shelley Powers <shelleypowers@burningbird.net>
Cc: John Foliot <jfoliot@stanford.edu>, 'Joshue O Connor' <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>, 'Laura Carlson' <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, 'Gez Lemon' <g.lemon@webprofession.com>, "'Gregory J. Rosmaita'" <oedipus@hicom.net>, public-html-a11y@w3.org
Message-ID: <20100302141112853021.354f97db@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Shelley Powers, Mon, 01 Mar 2010 21:29:46 -0600:

>>> Regardless of my understanding of this second table summary, the idea of
>>> redefining the existing element (caption), including its default
>>> behavior and relationship to the html table, breaks backwards
>>> compatibility. You can check with Henri to confirm this, if you wish.
>> 
>> Backwards compatibility with what? Breaks how? Ask Henri to confirm what
>> exactly? (I really don't understand what you are referring to here -
>> honest).
> 
> I'm still working through the rest of your email, but HTML4 
> specifically states that HTML tables can only have one, and only one 
> caption element. I believe that Leif is talking about adding a second 
> caption element.

Correct.

> Though technically not a _new_ element [1], using 
> two captions on a table is not, I believe, an enhancement that will 
> degrade gracefully with older user agents.
> 
> Firefox doesn't print out the second caption, as Leif states in his 
> change proposal, but that's not a behavior we can count on.

Right. We need support in more than one UA.

> Opera 
> does print out the second caption. Safari and Chrome do not. IE does. 
> NVDA says one caption when the page is loaded in Firefox. NVDA says 
> both captions, when the page is loaded in IE.
> 
> The results we will get for a second caption are unreliable.

My CP specifically says that we must investigate what the best CSS is. 
It sounds from your description like NVDA behaves very much like 
VoiceOver does: It only reads that what is somehow visible. VoiceOver 
e.g. doesn't read the content of @summary. Thus it reads the second 
caption, but only when it is somehow visible.

So, can you also tell us how NVDA behaves with regard to @summary?
-- 
leif halvard silli
Received on Tuesday, 2 March 2010 13:11:51 GMT

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