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Re: Notice of impending Formal Objection to Issue 30 Decision (@longdesc)

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 18:47:03 +0200
To: David Singer <singer@apple.com>
Cc: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20100813184703626950.16780079@xn--mlform-iua.no>
David Singer, Fri, 13 Aug 2010 09:06:15 -0700:
> I'm not usually one to raise points of grammar, spelling, or 
> semantics, but since it's come up twice on the same thread on the 
> same day, I think it's worth pointing out that
> 
>    "begging the question" 
> 
> does NOT mean "raising the question" but means "assuming the answer 
> in the question" <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question>

Wikipedia says: ]]More recently, "to beg the question" has been used as 
a synonym for "to raise the question":[[

Swedish Wikipedia says - in my translation 
(http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petitio_principii):

]]
A Petitio principii is usually a request.

A petitio principii is a proof which is logically valid, since the 
conclusion follows the premisses, but which is not a binding proof 
since the truth of the premises is not known. It is even called (in 
Greek) en 'archei aiteisthai' and [in English] 'begging the question', 
the latter since it is used in connections where someone asks that the 
premise should be investigated.
[[

As for my own use of this phrase:

> Charles McCathieNevile, Fri, 13 Aug 2010 06:15:13 +0800:
> 
>> It may be the case that a future version of 
> ARIA can change this. However, this boils down to having exactly the 
> same attribute, with a new name, available on more elements, in some 
> unspecified future when ARIA 2 is ready.
> 
> Well pointed out. 
> 
> Which begs the question: why not rather put @longdesc directly into 
> ARIA, and just globalize @longdesc, as a native attribute - to all - 
> relevant - elements in HTML5?

If what Charles said is true, namely that a ARIA solution simply 
involves recreating @longdesc with a new name in ARIA, then we can just 
as well use @longdesc directly. I believe Charles is right, but it 
should be investigated. 

I am not convinced that the modern usage is all that different from the 
old usage. 
-- 
leif halvard silli
Received on Friday, 13 August 2010 16:47:37 UTC

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