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Minutes, February 20 2012 FXTF telcon

From: Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 14:02:38 -0800
Message-ID: <CAGN7qDCGsoWd2MAF+tUOgHQEZZo--ae5zCBrqNT63VOTgtEhXA@mail.gmail.com>
To: public-fx@w3.org
Minutes:


http://www.w3.org/2012/02/20-fx-minutes.html


and as text:

  [1]W3C

     [1] http://www.w3.org/

                              - DRAFT -

                  CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference

20 Feb 2012

  [2]Agenda

     [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/0100.html

  See also: [3]IRC log

     [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/02/20-fx-irc

Attendees

  Present
         Doug_Schepers, Tav, +1.408.881.aabb, hober, dino, ed,
         cabanier, dirk, +1.408.636.aacc, smfr, shepazu, rik, tav

  Regrets
  Chair
         SV_MEETING_CHAIR

  Scribe
         cabanier

Contents

    * [4]Topics
        1. [5]linearRGB vs sRGB for filter effects
        2. [6]SVG attributes to presentation attributes
    * [7]Summary of Action Items
    _________________________________________________________

  <trackbot> Date: 20 February 2012

  <krit> 1:04

  <krit> ?

  <krit> :)

  <krit> I fear that my microphone is not working

  <krit> I have to rely on IRC

  <krit> The only open issue on Transforms for SVG is how to animate
  CSS transform property with SMIL

  <dino> people?

  <krit> I try to call in from another phone...

  <scribe> scribenick: cabanier

linearRGB vs sRGB for filter effects

  <ed>
  [8]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/0078.htm
  l

     [8] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/0078.html

  cabanier: I wanted Chris to be here to have this discussion
  ... I understand why it's there, I don't think it's the default

  ed: should we postpone?

  cabanier: let's postpone

SVG attributes to presentation attributes

  krit: did you get my email about how to animate CSS attributes with
  SMIL
  ... ed, you said you needed feedback from the development team

  <krit>
  [9]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_
  attribute

     [9]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute

  <krit>
  [10]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation
  _attribute#Issue_4:_Which_style_should_be_represented_by_SVG_DOMs_an
  imVal

    [10]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute#Issue_4:_Which_style_should_be_represented_by_SVG_DOMs_animVal

  <ed> ed: yes, sent offlist, but basically in agreement with the
  proposal

  krit: SMIL animation would be on top of the current CSS animations

  ed: the computed style would reflect animval?
  ... what is your recommendation?

  krit: 1. override style reflects current animations
  ... 2. Introduce a new style for SVG animations
  ... and the computed style would reflect this new style. could be
  called SMIL style

  cabanier: do you think the model are compatible?

  krit: yes, I think so

  cabanier: so they run independantly?

  krit: yes

  <ed>
  [11]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation
  _attribute#Current_presentation_attributes_in_the_CSS_cascading

    [11]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute#Current_presentation_attributes_in_the_CSS_cascading

  <ed> ed: so is that image i just linked to correct now?

  ed: do we want to wait for corrections to the proposal?

  krit: the wiki is up to date

  cabanier: do you know what the new style is?

  krit: it's an abstract style that is implemented by the browser

  ed: animVal becomes a shorthand for getcomputedstyle but with
  typing. You skip the string serialization
  ... that is fine with me

  resolution: issue #4 is accepted from wiki:
  [12]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation
  _attribute#Issue_4:_Which_style_should_be_represented_by_SVG_DOMs_an
  imVal

    [12]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute#Issue_4:_Which_style_should_be_represented_by_SVG_DOMs_animVal

  <ed> to be clear, the solution is to introduce a new style for SVG
  animations, as described there

  ed: are there other transform issues?

  krit: we want to move to WD as soon as possible
  ... I believe it will be done this week

  smfr: are we going to remove the DOM access methods?

  <smfr> [13]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/#dom-interfaces

    [13] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/#dom-interfaces

  krit: yes

  smfr: CSS matrix, CSS transform value

  krit: and we'll have another discussion on FX, or SVG
  ... it doesn't affect CSS any more

  ed: how so?

  krit: that is because CSS matrix is removed

  and we no longer have to describe how SVG and CSS interface

  cabanier: and the new keywords are accepted by the CSS people? (such
  as rotate(alpha, a, b)

  krit: yes
  ... the discussion on that has stopped

  smfr: and transform-origin is defined for SVG?

  krit: yes, for SVG it will be (0, 0)

  smfr: the rotate with two parameters gives the author more to think
  about
  ... these 2 optional arguments may make it less clear about what is
  happening
  ... the rules are already complex

  smft: and no browsers currently implement it yet

  krit: these are just 2 arguments to align the CSS and SVG models
  ... for current authors, it might be new
  ... but it's needed for backward compatibility with SVG parsing
  rules?

  ed: when is the WD ready?

  krit: depends on the CSS WG

  ed: yes, I pinged them when they can make their resolution
  ... let's skip the next topics since we need input from Microsoft
  and they are not here

  shepazu: about the transform spec, there were 12 topics called out,
  are we going to resolve it?

  <smfr>
  [14]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=CSS&component
  =Transforms&resolution=---

    [14]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=CSS&component=Transforms&resolution=---

  krit: the WG draft spec doesn't say that all issues have to be
  resolved

  shepazu: yes, but we better get start on this
  ... I've been talking to authors and they want different origins
  with a set of transforms

  krit: I don't think we want to support that for CSS3 transforms

  shepazu: that means it won't be there for 2-3 years at least

  krit: correct

  shepazu: what about tests? Aryeh has some test I believe

  krit: Adobe is working on SVG inside of webkit and we're working on
  some tests

  Tav: but you need 2 working implementations for the tests

  ed: do you have the test working in a web template or using the CSS
  WG testing harnass?

  krit: no, they are just WebKit test but we can move them to W3C
  tests

  ed: the csswg testsuite guidelines say that they don't accept SVG
  test. You need a HMTL wrapper
  ... the tools don't support straight SVG

  krit: inline SVG should be possible

  shepazu: we should have both: inline and straight SVG
  ... do we need 2 passing tests for HTML but do we need 2 passing
  test for SVG as well?

  smfr: we talked about different conformance classes in the spec. Not
  sure what the status is.

  shepazu: what is the status of the 2d/3d spec?

  smfr: I agree with tantek
  ... the major interop issues should be resolved
  ... agree that we should move to last call

  shepazu: not sure what LC accomplishes if we still have open issues

  smfr: tantek believes that they want to drop prefixes as soon as
  possible

  shepazu: but we don't have conforming implementations right?
  ... what does dropping prefixes have to do with LC?

  smfr: well, the sooner you do LC the faster you can go the CR

  shepazu: isn't it more reasonable to agree on when to drop prefixes
  than to rush the spec?

  ed: I agree

  shepazu: if there is a full test suite that tests each feature and
  everyone passes is, at that point you can drop prefixes
  ... his goal is putting the horse behind the cart.

  smft: this was discussed at length. It's been covered already

  <dino> read the thousands of emails

  smfr: I believe tantek's proposal was similar to yours

  shepazu: I will read up on the process and take it to the list

  <smfr>
  [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/0528.html

    [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/0528.html

  shepazu: I want to move this forward faster
  ... we've been talking about this at w3c and we want to move forward
  on this spec asap too
  ... let us know if you need help

  yes

Summary of Action Items

  [End of minutes]
    _________________________________________________________


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   $Date: 2012/02/20 21:58:35 $
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    [17] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/ animval/ animval?/
Succeeded: s/Aria/Aryeh/
Succeeded: s/the guidelines/the csswg testsuite guidelines/
Found ScribeNick: cabanier
Inferring Scribes: cabanier
Default Present: Doug_Schepers, Tav, +1.408.881.aabb, hober, dino, ed,
cabanier, dirk, +1.408.636.aacc, smfr
Present: Doug_Schepers Tav +1.408.881.aabb hober dino ed cabanier dirk
+1.408.636.aacc smfr shepazu rik tav
Agenda: [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/01
00.html

    [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/0100.html

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 20 Feb 2012
Guessing minutes URL: [20]http://www.w3.org/2012/02/20-fx-minutes.html
People with action items:

    [20] http://www.w3.org/2012/02/20-fx-minutes.html

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