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Minutes, February 13 2012 FXTF telcon

From: Erik Dahlstrom <ed@opera.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:11:55 +0100
To: public-fx@w3.org
Message-ID: <op.v9m095ipgeuyw5@mbp-2.local>
Minutes:

   http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-minutes.html

and as text:

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference

13 Feb 2012

    [2]Agenda

       [2]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/0091.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-irc

Attendees

    Present
           ed, krit, cyril, rik, shepazu

    Regrets
    Chair
           ed

    Scribe
           ed

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]transforms issues
          2. [6]issue-66
      * [7]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 13 February 2012

    <scribe> scribe: ed

    <scribe> scribeNick: ed

transforms issues

    dirk: can svg parsing do parsing with both svg and css parsing
    rules, without or with units? could svg change here?
    ... would like to modify the svg parser to accept css syntax for
    transforms, so e.g translate(20px, 20px) would be supported

    rik: that's a big change

    dirk: you have to use units in css syntax anyway

    rik: but for an svg parser not having a css parser?

    dirk: that's why i'm proposing extended to allow the css syntax, but
    without requiring a full css parser
    ... if we change transform to be a presentation attribute it's still
    a property

    <ChrisL> all properties are presentation attribues, and the reverse
    is also true

    ed: the current presentation attributes are still parsed as defined
    in svg, but we've discussed allowing css syntax (and parsing) in svg
    attributes

    <ChrisL> presentation attributes differences from style sheets:
    units, scienetific notation, case sensitivity

    dirk: i also wanted to suggest aryeh gregor as an editor for the
    merged transforms spec

    cl: is he member of css or svg wg?

    dirk: he's a member of csswg

    <ChrisL>
    [8]https://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=32061&public=1

       [8] https://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=32061&public=1

    <ChrisL> sorry, misread. yes, he is

    <scribe> ACTION: dirk to contact all the editors of
    [9]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/ to see if they agree to
    have Aryeh Gregor as an editor too, and send a mail to public-fx
    about it [recorded in
    [10]http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-minutes.html#action01]

       [9] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-69 - Contact all the editors of
    [11]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/ to see if they agree to
    have Aryeh Gregor as an editor too, and send a mail to public-fx
    about it [on Dirk Schulze - due 2012-02-20].

      [11] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/

    <krit>
    [12]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/Merged_Transforms#Parser_issu
    es

      [12]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/Merged_Transforms#Parser_issues

    <ChrisL> minutes are here (scroll down to Transforms )

    <ChrisL>
    [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/0550.html

      [13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/0550.html

    <ChrisL> quote "David: I don't want 2d to wait on SVG stuff.

    <ChrisL> David: 2d is not going to change. "

    CL: smfr claimed 2d transforms is css only, not fx
    ... pointed out that svg had had transforms much longer, but people
    didn't want to slow down

    rik: the 2d spec, not the combined one?

    cl: also concerns about where bugs were tracked
    ... csswg wants to push ahead with 2d transforms
    ... perhaps driven by the prefix discussions

    CC: canon was interested in having 3d transforms in svg
    ... we were happy with it being a combined spec
    ... but don't want it to be css only
    ... it needs to work in svg

    <ChrisL> I agree with Cyril

    <ChrisL> and its sad there is no-one (except for myself) from CSS WG
    here

    dirk: currently working on the merged transforms spec, we're mostly
    clear on transform-origin e.g
    ... there's no conclusion from the minutes CL pasted that says the
    csswg will continue with the 2d transforms independently

    CL: the minutes are a bit partial, vincent argued that we should
    work together
    ... and there are issues with the spec still
    ... some issues joint between 2d and 3d
    ... we should discuss this in Hamburg

    <ChrisL> I hope we can move forward on a joint spec at the Hamburg
    meeting, since we are colocated SVG and CSS at that f2f

    CC: from the minutes, david says "I don't want to wait on 2d stuff",
    and svg has had transforms for 10-12 years, don't understand why css
    would have to wait for svg

    <ChrisL> also unminutes was Simon querying if there were SVG tests
    for 2D transforms

    CC: would be fine with transform with only 2d that is compatible
    with svg, and later one spec with 3d with support for svg as well

    <ChrisL> quite a bit of what I said was unminuted, it seems

    CL: would be good to have proposed resolutions for the Hamburg
    meeting

    dirk: mayube the 3d stuff won't be ready, but 2d should be possible

    <ChrisL> I agree, Simon is working hard on the 3d stuff

    dirk: pretty sure we'll have a working draft to hamburg, 3d included

    CC: simon says he was createing tests for 3d transforms

    CL: some concerns from simon in the CSSWG meeting about testing
    transforms, but svg has had this tested for a long time
    ... should be possible to just take tests from svg

    rik: seems many things went unminuted in the csswg meeting

    dirk: can we resolve that svg will use css-like parsing rules?

    CL: what would it say exactly?

    ed: we can resolve things on the public-fx mailinglist, if enough
    people respond to the thread

    <krit> [14]http://pastebin.com/HWC7mq6y

      [14] http://pastebin.com/HWC7mq6y

    dirk: only thing missing is that svg supports scientific notation
    for numbers

    ed: ok, let's try and resolve this on the list

issue-66

    [15]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/proposals/css-animation/animation-proposal
    .html

      [15]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/proposals/css-animation/animation-proposal.html

    ed: previous discussions indicated that this should be made a spec
    module on top of svg 1.1, and perhaps later included in svg2

    dirk: i could be co-editor

    cl: we need someone from MS to take this on

    <ChrisL> it would be good to get a co-editor from microsoft, or more
    involvement from them

    ed: i could also co-edit
    ... we need more feedback from the csswg, i did send this to
    www-style, but we might need to get this on the wg's agenda too

    <scribe> ACTION: ed to contact Microsoft about ISSUE-66, and
    editorship, and to mail the csswg chairs about the syntax issues for
    svgattrs->cssprops [recorded in
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-70 - Contact Microsoft about ISSUE-66, and
    editorship, and to mail the csswg chairs about the syntax issues for
    svgattrs->cssprops [on Erik Dahlström - due 2012-02-20].

    trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: dirk to contact all the editors of
    [17]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/ to see if they agree to
    have Aryeh Gregor as an editor too, and send a mail to public-fx
    about it [recorded in
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: ed to contact Microsoft about ISSUE-66, and
    editorship, and to mail the csswg chairs about the syntax issues for
    svgattrs->cssprops [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-minutes.html#action02]

      [17] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


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     ([21]CVS log)
     $Date: 2012/02/13 21:56:26 $
      _________________________________________________________

      [20] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [21] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: ed
Inferring ScribeNick: ed
Found ScribeNick: ed
Present: ed krit cyril rik shepazu
Agenda: [23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/00
91.html
Found Date: 13 Feb 2012
Guessing minutes URL: [24]http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-minutes.html
People with action items: dirk ed

      [23]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/0091.html
      [24] http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-minutes.html

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      [25] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm


-- 
Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software
Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed
Received on Monday, 13 February 2012 22:12:21 GMT

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