From: Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com>

Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:33:54 -0700

Message-ID: <CAGN7qDAU0Agor1u7ScuUT9uAQXFySzQvOfaUrux1gvOKQOEiig@mail.gmail.com>

To: Paul Topping <pault@dessci.com>, Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>

Cc: Dirk Schulze <dschulze@adobe.com>, public-fx@w3.org

Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:33:54 -0700

Message-ID: <CAGN7qDAU0Agor1u7ScuUT9uAQXFySzQvOfaUrux1gvOKQOEiig@mail.gmail.com>

To: Paul Topping <pault@dessci.com>, Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>

Cc: Dirk Schulze <dschulze@adobe.com>, public-fx@w3.org

I haven't seen any replies from the W3C people. Chris, who would we ask about this? Rik On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Paul Topping <pault@dessci.com> wrote: > While you certainly can take your own copy of MathJax as it is open > source, the MathJax Consortium does maintain a CDN that many of its users > point their pages at. You can refer to a fixed version of MathJax in order > to control when to move to a new version and to test it on your own content > before going live.**** > > ** ** > > Paul**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Rik Cabanier [mailto:cabanier@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Monday, April 23, 2012 3:56 PM > *To:* Dirk Schulze > *Cc:* Paul Topping; public-fx@w3.org > > *Subject:* Re: [Filter Effects][css3-transforms] Using MathML for formulas > **** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Dirk Schulze <dschulze@adobe.com> wrote:* > *** > > > On Apr 23, 2012, at 2:29 PM, Paul Topping wrote: > > > I'm confused. What script and demo site are you referring to? What does > > the popup say?**** > > http://www.mathjax.org/demos/ tested on IE 9 without MathPlayer plugin.*** > * > > > > > > MathJax is very configurable, by the way. I understand about your > > reluctance to having a W3C spec require JavaScript but, IMHO, one can't > > do much on the web these days without JS enabled. How many people really > > run with JS disabled these days anyway?**** > > I totally agree. But something that applies to general websites doesn't > necessarily apply to specifications. Some specifications are still written > in pure ASCII text, just to provide long term achievement (not at W3C). And > JavaScript seems to be one of the things that belong to this kind of > category that might make it harder to provide long term achievement. I am > not sure if the W3C has any preferences to this topic. However MathJax > might be different, since the content does not necessarily rely on the JS > library.**** > > ** ** > > It would be good to know what the W3C policy is.**** > > Obviously, we would have to use our own snapshot of MathJax so we can be > sure that there are no breaking changes.**** > > ** ** > > It would make our lives easier and the specs prettier.**** > > ** ** > > Rik **** > > **** > > > > > Paul > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Dirk Schulze [mailto:dschulze@adobe.com] > >> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 2:23 PM > >> To: Paul Topping > >> Cc: Rik Cabanier; public-fx@w3.org > >> Subject: Re: [Filter Effects][css3-transforms] Using MathML for > >> formulas > >> > >> > >> On Apr 23, 2012, at 2:04 PM, Paul Topping wrote: > >> > >>> Screen readers work with MathPlayer, the IE plugin that my company > >> gives > >>> away for free. (I could not tell you which ones and which versions > >>> work.) If MathPlayer is installed, IE uses it to display MathML and > >>> screen readers use it to turn math into text to be spoken. If the > >> page > >>> uses MathJax, and MathJax detects IE+MathPlayer, it defers to > >> MathPlayer > >>> to display the math and screen readers will work fine on the math. > >> > >> I know MathPlayer. I just checked MathJax on IE. The problem is that > >> the script suggest that the MathPlayer plugin is needed to display the > >> formulas on the demo site, even if that is obviously not the case! As > >> much as I like MathPlayer and the output of MathJax, this behavior > >> seems not to be applicable for a specification of the W3C. It is > >> strange that I didn't get a popup on the main page of the project on > >> the first load. So it looks like this popup can be blocked (without > >> changes to the code itself)? > >> > >> Greetings, > >> Dirk > >> > >> > >> > >>> > >>> Paul > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Dirk Schulze [mailto:dschulze@adobe.com] > >>>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 1:54 PM > >>>> To: Paul Topping > >>>> Cc: Rik Cabanier; public-fx@w3.org > >>>> Subject: Re: [Filter Effects][css3-transforms] Using MathML for > >>>> formulas > >>>> > >>>> I would like to know more about MathJax before I come to a > >> conclusion > >>>> for my self. MathJax is a Javascript library. Content in > >>> specifications > >>>> should not rely on JS at all in my eyes. > >>>> > >>>> But if I understood it correctly, than you can add formulas in pure > >>>> MathML and the library would take care about the rendering? It > > would > >>>> still mean that you cannot read the specification on disabled > >>>> JavaScript and missing MathML support. > >>>> > >>>> Is there a benefit to the idea of Aryeh to use CSS and check for > > the > >>>> MathML namespace? My priority is the accessibility. If we can use > >> pure > >>>> MathML, the specs might be more accessible. The problem with > > Aryeh's > >>>> solution is, that current screenreader don't inspect elements which > >>> are > >>>> not displayed on the screen (e.g display:none). Therefore, on IE > > the > >>>> MathML code wouldn't be accessible for screen reader users since > > the > >>>> code does not get displayed. Would that be different with MathJax? > >>>> > >>>> Greetings, > >>>> Dirk > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Apr 23, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Paul Topping wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> It is not as fast as if MathML were supported directly in the > >>> browser > >>>> but JavaScript performance is getting faster all the time. It also > >>>> depends a lot on what browser you are talking about and what > > device. > >>> It > >>>> is very fast in IE with MathPlayer installed as it defers to > >>> MathPlayer > >>>> to draw the MathML. It is much slower on an iPhone, for example. > >> Best > >>>> thing to do is try it on a sample page. There are also links to > >> other > >>>> sites that use MathJax listed on the MathJax site. You might find > >> some > >>>> analogous content. > >>>>> > >>>>> Paul > >>>>> > >>>>> From: Rik Cabanier [mailto:cabanier@gmail.com] > >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 1:26 PM > >>>>> To: Paul Topping > >>>>> Cc: public-fx@w3.org > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Filter Effects][css3-transforms] Using MathML for > >>>> formulas > >>>>> > >>>>> This is great! Thanks for pointing this out. > >>>>> Do you know if the performance is good? Some spec pages are quite > >>>> long and I think mathjax has to process all the text. > >>>>> > >>>>> Rik > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Paul Topping <pault@dessci.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> You may be interested in the MathJax project (www.mathjax.org). It > >>> is > >>>> an > >>>>> open source JavaScript engine for displaying MathML and LaTeX > >>>> equations > >>>>> in all modern web browsers and ebook readers. It essentially fills > >>>> the > >>>>> gaps in browser support of MathML. > >>>>> > >>>>> Paul Topping > >>>>> Design Science, Inc. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >**** > > ** ** >Received on Thursday, 26 April 2012 16:34:29 UTC

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