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Re: Minutes: 3 April 2011 FXTF telcon

From: Dean Jackson <dino@apple.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 10:27:31 +1000
Cc: "public-fx@w3.org" <public-fx@w3.org>
Message-id: <80A10126-B78E-4409-8FBE-C28205CDD38B@apple.com>
To: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>

On 05/04/2011, at 8:54 AM, Doug Schepers wrote:

> http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html
> 
> 
>                   CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference
> 
> 04 Apr 2011
> 
>   [2]Agenda
> 
>      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2011JanMar/0170.html
> 
>   See also: [3]IRC log
> 
>      [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-irc
> 
> Attendees
> 
>   Present
>          smfr, +1.206.675.aaaa, Doug_Schepers, ed, +1.650.253.aabb,
>          TabAtkins, ChrisL, anthony, hober
> 
>   Regrets
>   Chair
>          erik
> 
>   Scribe
>          shepazu
> 
> Contents
> 
>     * [4]Topics
>         1. [5]CSS Animation synchronization
>         2. [6]SVG/CSS 2d transforms - 'transform-origin'
>         3. [7]Filter Effects status update
>     * [8]Summary of Action Items
>     _________________________________________________________
> 
>   <trackbot> Date: 04 April 2011
> 
>   <scribe> scribeNick: shepazu
> 
> CSS Animation synchronization
> 
>   <ed>
>   [9]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2011JanMar/0168.htm
>   l
> 
>      [9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2011JanMar/0168.html
> 
>   ed: long thread, wondered what the status of the animation work is?
> 
>   smfr: Dean promised to publish a draft this week
>   ... has an API for WebKit

On this topic, in a response [xx] I mentioned that we're working on a JS API to animations in WebKit, but I don't think we're in a position to standardise yet. For one, we're experimenting at the moment. For two, we're not yet thinking of other implementations. For three, I'm not sure where the best place to make such a proposal is. Here?

[xx] http://www.w3.org/mid/4E11CF76-150A-45C0-966C-CCEDEFDBDA7D@apple.com

> 
>   ed: does it do sync?
> 
>   smfr: I don't think so
>   ... it's hard to do smooth frame synchronization starting one
>   animation at the end of another
>   ... hard to get seamless joins based on 'animationEnd' event
> 
>   ChrisL: so, you want a negative offset?
> 
>   smfr: I think it's better to use JS APIs, per Dean's spec
> 
>   cabanier: on mobile devices, JS overhead becomes tens of seconds
> 
>   TabAtkins: that's based on the traditional approach, not Dean's
>   approach
> 
>   smfr: you would set it up using keyframes or such, not execute it
>   directly (?)
> 
>   cabanier: on iPad, we have to skip frames on animations, how would
>   you set this up?
> 
>   TabAtkins: [missed]
> 
>   cabanier: ok, I'll have to see it working
> 
>   TabAtkins: it's simple at the moment, but has clear directions for
>   expansion
> 
>   ed: does this solve Paul's concerns?
> 
>   cabanier: paul was asking about pausing and rewinding animations, or
>   replacing them midway through
>   ... we were more concerned about synchronization in a simple manner
>   ... without setting it up in advance or keying off an animation
>   event handler
> 
>   ed: ok, we will wait for Dean's spec before going further
> 

[snip]

> Filter Effects status update
> 
>   <ed>
>   [14]http://www.w3.org/mid/4A2DB3AE4504E944AF122BBFBA7FBA1F582D2DC1@T
>   K5EX14MBXC114.redmond.corp.microsoft.com
> 
>     [14] http://www.w3.org/mid/4A2DB3AE4504E944AF122BBFBA7FBA1F582D2DC1@TK5EX14MBXC114.redmond.corp.microsoft.com
> 
>   ChrisL: my impression is that CSS people want it to be very simple,
>   and that adding borders, backgrounds, etc complicates it, so a
>   better would be to add new 'in's to the SVG filter primitives
>   ... simon had a counterproposal with separate names, but that raised
>   the question of how they combined

We have a few proposals. Patrick made one with 'in' states listed after the filter. I made one where the 'in' states were magic filter effects. Simon suggested new properties.

Both Simon and I said we don't need to address this now. Our position is that CSS filters should be a simple linear chain of effects on the source input. Everything else can go to SVG/XML with url().

Dean

> 
>   ed: I think I'm in favor of having additional filter input image
>   keywords, and we could define them for the SVG case
> 
>   ChrisL: for instance, for things that don't use the CSS box model,
>   you would just use transparent black for the border image (for
>   example)
> 
>   ed: we already have 'backgroundImage', but could do it differently
>   for HTML
> 
>   <scribe> ACTION: ed to add filter input image keywords for CSS and
>   HTML [recorded in
>   [15]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action02]
> 
>   <trackbot> Created ACTION-29 - Add filter input image keywords for
>   CSS and HTML [on Erik Dahlström - due 2011-04-11].
> 
>   ed: would like to have a list... background of element, border,
>   content box...
> 
>   ChrisL: padding is always transparent...
>   ... so, that's a good list
>   ... start with simple ones, like solid and dotted border, and give
>   it a dropshadow
>   ... then experiment with 9-box, apply effects... string of pearls,
>   celtic knot...
>   ... take the alpha channel of the border image to produce a
>   dropshadow, I think that would be compelling
> 
>   ed: I'll also try to combine SVG Compositing to filters.... haven't
>   looked at it yet...
> 
>   <scribe> ACTION: ed to add normative reference to SVG Compositing in
>   Filters, and merge them where it applies [recorded in
>   [16]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action03]
> 
>   <trackbot> Created ACTION-30 - Add normative reference to SVG
>   Compositing in Filters, and merge them where it applies [on Erik
>   Dahlström - due 2011-04-11].
> 
>   trackbot: end telcon
> 
> Summary of Action Items
> 
>   [NEW] ACTION: anthony to reply to Roc's email with our suggested
>   resolution [recorded in
>   [17]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action01]
>   [NEW] ACTION: ed to add filter input image keywords for CSS and HTML
>   [recorded in
>   [18]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action02]
>   [NEW] ACTION: ed to add normative reference to SVG Compositing in
>   Filters, and merge them where it applies [recorded in
>   [19]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action03]
> 
> 
> 
Received on Tuesday, 5 April 2011 00:31:53 GMT

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