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Re: [Xsltforms-support] Is XForms a failure to learn from?

From: Stephen Cameron <steve.cameron.62@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 06:52:53 +1100
Message-ID: <CAG=ut6+uAXQzBhpZM_MYbhRpy=9nU9L+Hs9DXzFAsZVAW+P9Aw@mail.gmail.com>
To: bch@shroggslodge.freeserve.co.uk
Cc: Alain Couthures <alain.couthures@agencexml.com>, Forms WG <public-forms@w3.org>, "xsltforms-support@lists.sourceforge.net" <Xsltforms-support@lists.sourceforge.net>, "public-xformsusers@w3.org" <public-xformsusers@w3.org>
Hi Chris,

XSmiles is a Java project and just maybe that is a problem, no one is
interested in building (on) a browser using Java.

XQuery and XSLT do have some jobs market value still, but mainly in
integration work. That is a niche and in large part mostly filled by Saxon
I suspect.

The browser has become an application development platform, but the
approach used to do that is all Javascript based, XSLTForms itself is
Javascript in large part. and uses XSLT as a 'translator' to Javascript.

So, is there a place for such a browser as XSmiles but all C++? It could be
both a browser and a generic XML technologies library. I have a project
that I would love to do with such a beast, but maybe I am just one of those
"creative non-mainstream people (who) like to push boundaries" that you
mention, with no thought of the practicalities of cost and marketability.


On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 12:45 AM, <bch@shroggslodge.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 11:07:41 +0200
> Alain Couthures <alain.couthures@agencexml.com> wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > Having a look at AB/2014-2015 Priorities/w3c work success
> > (https://www.w3.org/wiki/AB/2014-2015_Priorities/w3c_work_success), I
> > can read that XForms is one of the "failures to learn from".
> >
> > Surely, there is a lot to be said about XForms as a failure. In this
> > list of "failures", I would personally add XSLT and XQuery for very
> > similar reasons, and surely SVG some years ago, if they all had to be
> > considered as effective Web, or client-side, technologies.
> >
> > What do you think? Shouldn't we write what has to be written?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -Alain
> Hello Alain
> I am not an expert in the field, but I would not call XForms a failure.
> Though I suppose it does depend on what the measure is.
> If I were looking for something that would have made it come together
> better, it would have been a tool, a main tool, a browser or something,
> that brought all the ideas together in a demonstrable and useful
> product.
> Having said that, it is a shame it has all [arguably] struggled along
> for reasons which I suspect are down to other commercial vested
> interests by big players and their take-up or lack of, any proposed
> standards adoption.
> I still believe the XML based 'tools' (XForms, and associated concepts
> e.g. XRX) are extremely important and its too easy to cast them off.
> This comment from a reply to your post "...the W3C...should just
> make its own browser with ALL its XML standards implemented." (Stephen
> Cameron)  is not a shout without serious merit in my opinion too.
> Not wishing to distract from supporting the previous idea, was not
> XSmiles an attempt to have a go at doing the XML standards compliant
> browser.
> Whatever, I still try to use XForms and it will only fail for me if the
> clever and supportive open-source community minds keeping tools going
> in some form or another, actually give up. To them, including you for
> XSLTForms, I am grateful!
> I wish there was some push by W3C to resurrect (if some feel it has had
> its day) and bring it all together in a serious meaningful way. There
> would always be a market I'm sure.....creative non-mainstream people
> like to push boundaries   :-).
> Regards
> Chris H.
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Received on Tuesday, 14 October 2014 17:19:27 UTC

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