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Re: [Xsltforms-support] Is XForms a failure to learn from?

From: Stephen Cameron <steve.cameron.62@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 07:42:04 +1100
Message-ID: <CAG=ut6+6Y5M_xnvm6+dhSCRnm+jD-8R=RmotuxvEdo0rD8=C-A@mail.gmail.com>
To: marcelo alfaro <cmalfaro@gmail.com>
Cc: "public-xformsusers@w3.org" <public-xformsusers@w3.org>, bch@shroggslodge.freeserve.co.uk, Forms WG <public-forms@w3.org>, "xsltforms-support@lists.sourceforge.net" <Xsltforms-support@lists.sourceforge.net>
Having twice tried to promote XForms in my workplace and not succeeded, for
me XSLTForms has failed in the 'marketplace of ideas'. But the IT road-side
is littered with such worthwhile efforts that lie discarded. Unless there
is a job or dollars in it most people are not interested. Have look at job
adds looking for AngularJS vs XForms experience.

XForms support in browsers is the subject of discussion though I think. If
Alain had not developed XSLTForms, XForms as it was envisaged, client-side
(RESTful), would be quite dead.

But things do sometimes 'rise from the dead' :)

On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 12:21 AM, marcelo alfaro <cmalfaro@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all, I would like to express what I think about this... For me XForms
> is an incredible and powerful technology.  I love it and I will keep using
> it as long as there are a community like this and, of course, the tools to
> get the job done. In this respect, XSLTForms is all I need to build
> powerful interfaces that are easy to code and maintain. That's it.
> I am very grateful to Alain and all the people that make this possible.
> So, Is XForms popular? No, Is  XForms a failure? Not at all.  This are not
> the same thing.
> Misquoting, I would say that, the reports of XForms's death are greatly
> exaggerated ;)
>
> cheers
> marcelo
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 4:52 PM, Stephen Cameron <
> steve.cameron.62@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> XSmiles is a Java project and just maybe that is a problem, no one is
>> interested in building (on) a browser using Java.
>>
>> XQuery and XSLT do have some jobs market value still, but mainly in
>> integration work. That is a niche and in large part mostly filled by Saxon
>> I suspect.
>>
>> The browser has become an application development platform, but the
>> approach used to do that is all Javascript based, XSLTForms itself is
>> Javascript in large part. and uses XSLT as a 'translator' to Javascript.
>>
>> So, is there a place for such a browser as XSmiles but all C++? It could
>> be both a browser and a generic XML technologies library. I have a project
>> that I would love to do with such a beast, but maybe I am just one of those
>> "creative non-mainstream people (who) like to push boundaries" that you
>> mention, with no thought of the practicalities of cost and marketability.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 12:45 AM, <bch@shroggslodge.freeserve.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 11:07:41 +0200
>>> Alain Couthures <alain.couthures@agencexml.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > All,
>>> >
>>> > Having a look at AB/2014-2015 Priorities/w3c work success
>>> > (https://www.w3.org/wiki/AB/2014-2015_Priorities/w3c_work_success), I
>>> > can read that XForms is one of the "failures to learn from".
>>> >
>>> > Surely, there is a lot to be said about XForms as a failure. In this
>>> > list of "failures", I would personally add XSLT and XQuery for very
>>> > similar reasons, and surely SVG some years ago, if they all had to be
>>> > considered as effective Web, or client-side, technologies.
>>> >
>>> > What do you think? Shouldn't we write what has to be written?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks!
>>> >
>>> > -Alain
>>>
>>> Hello Alain
>>>
>>> I am not an expert in the field, but I would not call XForms a failure.
>>> Though I suppose it does depend on what the measure is.
>>>
>>> If I were looking for something that would have made it come together
>>> better, it would have been a tool, a main tool, a browser or something,
>>> that brought all the ideas together in a demonstrable and useful
>>> product.
>>>
>>> Having said that, it is a shame it has all [arguably] struggled along
>>> for reasons which I suspect are down to other commercial vested
>>> interests by big players and their take-up or lack of, any proposed
>>> standards adoption.
>>>
>>> I still believe the XML based 'tools' (XForms, and associated concepts
>>> e.g. XRX) are extremely important and its too easy to cast them off.
>>>
>>> This comment from a reply to your post "...the W3C...should just
>>> make its own browser with ALL its XML standards implemented." (Stephen
>>> Cameron)  is not a shout without serious merit in my opinion too.
>>>
>>> Not wishing to distract from supporting the previous idea, was not
>>> XSmiles an attempt to have a go at doing the XML standards compliant
>>> browser.
>>>
>>> Whatever, I still try to use XForms and it will only fail for me if the
>>> clever and supportive open-source community minds keeping tools going
>>> in some form or another, actually give up. To them, including you for
>>> XSLTForms, I am grateful!
>>>
>>> I wish there was some push by W3C to resurrect (if some feel it has had
>>> its day) and bring it all together in a serious meaningful way. There
>>> would always be a market I'm sure.....creative non-mainstream people
>>> like to push boundaries   :-).
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Chris H.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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Received on Tuesday, 14 October 2014 17:19:27 UTC

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