AW: AW: Predicate for quasi-synoyms (with upwards posting)?

Hi Antione,

Your comment tips the balance, and I have removed the subproperty statement and inserted a sentence in the definition, which will avoid any reasoning been messed up:

<http://zbw.eu/namespaces/zbw-extensions/altLabelNarrower>
    a owl:AnnotationProperty ;
    rdfs:isDefinedBy <http://zbw.eu/namespaces/zbw-extensions/zbw-extensions.rdf> ;
    rdfs:label "altLabelNarrower"@en ;
    skos:definition """Lexical label for a narrower term which is
    not defined as a separate concept (according to ISO 25964, 8.4), sometimes
    referred to as 'upward posting'. Intended for use with
    skos:Concept, instead of using skos:altLabel."""@en .

Cheers, Joachim

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Antoine Isaac [mailto:aisaac@few.vu.nl]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. April 2017 23:08
> An: public-esw-thes@w3.org
> Betreff: Re: AW: Predicate for quasi-synoyms (with upwards posting)?
> 
> Hi Joachim,
> 
> If you really can't avoid representing these things, then the pattern you've
> chosen (simple property, not hiddenLabel) is probably the best one.
> This said having this property as sub-property of skos:altLabel has downsides for
> interoperability. I mean, if data consumers expect skos:altLabel to reference
> labels with the same meaning (more or less) as the prefered label, finding your
> altLabelNarrower in the middle of them could have bad consequences.
> 
> Actually even your own application, if it uses reasoning, may end up showing
> this:
> [
> Social class
>                  used for: Social background, Elite, Middle class, Working class
>                  also utilized for: Elite, Middle class, Working class ]
> 
> If Elite, Middle class, Working class are altLabelNarrower then they are also
> altLabel and thus would end up in your 'used for' display.
> 
> So maybe you could create our new property without any rdfs:subPropertyOf?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Antoine
> 
> On 12/04/17 17:46, Neubert, Joachim wrote:
> > Dear colleagues,
> >
> > Thank you all for your feedback! I've answerd to some mails, but
> unfortunately not included the list, so I'll try to summarize the suggestions,
> before introducing my solution:
> >
> >
> > "upwards posting" not considered a good practice / why not define
> > seperate concepts
> >
> > As mentioned in many answers, the whole "upwards posting" looks a bit
> messy. I found it already in place when I started working with STW some years
> ago. However: For every subject vocabulary, there are peripheral areas, where
> it makes sense to work on a coarser granularity of concepts. For the example
> given below ("Social class") the STW defines explicit narrower concepts (see
> http://zbw.eu/stw/descriptor/15717-1), whereas a taxonomy for mathematics
> could choose to do not so. This is in accordance with ISO 25964, 8.4. A valid
> reason mentioned there is to reduce the number of concepts in a vocabulary, in
> particular if very little information on the more specific concepts would be
> available in the given context.
> >
> > Nevertheless, these terms exist. Often, explicit descisions have been made
> about their subsumption under a broader concept, and in my eyes it makes
> sense to document these descisions and make the broader concept retrievable
> via the subsummarized term (particularly for indexing, as Stella notes). Even in
> selected retrieval/search expansion cases these terms may be useful (think of
> building categorial facets for search results of indexed and non-indexed
> documents), while in most cases you definitively want to exclude them.
> >
> >
> > use skos:hiddenLabel
> >
> > I've considered a usage similar to what Christophe suggested, but
> > ended up with dedicating skos:hiddenLabel to _invisible_ labels
> > (mis-spellings and the like). Because of the documentary value
> > discussed above, I want to show the "upwards-posted" terms to the
> > thesaurus users, e.g. like this
> >
> > Social class
> >                  used for: Social background
> >                  also utilized for: Elite, Middle class, Working class
> >
> >
> > use SKOS-XL labels, or lexinfo:approximateSynonym/lexinfo:hyponym
> >
> > Since these are object properties, they would require separate URIs.
> > That would mean "more things" in the concept scheme, which I wanted to
> > avoid in the first place - plus increased structural complexity :-(
> >
> >
> > Since it looks like nobody has already created what we search for,
> > I've introduced a custom specialization of skos:altLabel
> >
> > <http://zbw.eu/namespaces/zbw-extensions/altLabelNarrower>
> >      a owl:AnnotationProperty ;
> >      rdfs:isDefinedBy <http://zbw.eu/namespaces/zbw-extensions/zbw-

> extensions.rdf> ;
> >      rdfs:label "altLabelNarrower"@en ;
> >      rdfs:subPropertyOf skos:altLabel ;
> >      skos:definition """Lexical label for a narrower term which is
> >      not defined as a separate concept (according to ISO 25964, 8.4),
> sometimes
> >      referred to as 'upward posting'."""@en .
> >
> > This is not carved in stone, so I'd be happy to receive further feedback.
> >
> > Thanks again, and have fine holidays - Joachim
> >
> > PS. I'm aware that the specialization above does not cover the use case
> illustrated by Christophe with the "Coke/Cola/Cocaine" example. However, if
> additional functionality is required (asking the use to choose between
> alternatives), a separate property would make sense to trigger such a
> functionality explicitely.
> >
> >
> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >> Von: Stella Dextre Clarke [mailto:stella@lukehouse.org]
> >> Gesendet: Freitag, 31. März 2017 21:33
> >> An: Antoine Isaac; public-esw-thes@w3.org
> >> Betreff: Re: Predicate for quasi-synoyms (with upwards posting)?
> >>
> >> Upward posting may have some useful contexts at the indexing stage,
> >> but not for automatic search expansion, I suggest. It can be a useful
> >> source of ideas in contexts where a human intermediary chooses to
> >> increase recall, but not where the machine applies it blindly.
> >>
> >> Stella
> >>
> >>
> >> On 31/03/2017 19:20, Antoine Isaac wrote:
> >>> Hi Joachim, all,
> >>>
> >>> I don't know of any predicate that would answer the need. Maybe
> >>> because upward posting is not really recognized as a good practice
> >>> in general ;-)
> >>>
> >>> Antoine
> >>>
> >>> On 28/03/17 10:13, Thomas Francart wrote:
> >>>> Not exactly a specialization of skos:altLabel, but Lexinfo defines
> >>>> http://www.lexinfo.net/ontology/2.0/lexinfo#approximateSynonym or
> >>>> http://www.lexinfo.net/ontology/2.0/lexinfo#hyponym to be used to
> >>>> relate two LexicalSenses in Ontolex.
> >>>> Why aren't "Elite", "Middle class" and "Working class" defined as
> >>>> skos:narrowers of "Social class" ?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thomas
> >>>>
> >>>> 2017-03-28 9:51 GMT+02:00 Neubert, Joachim <J.Neubert@zbw.eu
> >>>> <mailto:J.Neubert@zbw.eu>>:
> >>>>
> >>>>      SKOS does not distinguish between synonyms and quasi-synonyms
> >>>> resultig from „upwards posting“ (as mentioned in
> >>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/skos-primer/#secalt

> >>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/skos-primer/#secalt>). To give an example
> >>>> (taken from
> >>>> https://www.slideshare.net/accessinnovations/taxonomy-fundamentals-

> >>>> wo
> >>>> rkshop-2013/37
> >>>> <https://www.slideshare.net/accessinnovations/taxonomy-fundamentals

> >>>> -w
> >>>> orkshop-2013/37>):____
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>      __ __
> >>>>
> >>>>      :xyz skos:prefLabel “Social class” ;____
> >>>>
> >>>>           skos:altLabel “Elite”, “Middle class”, “Working class”
> >>>> .____
> >>>>
> >>>>      __ __
> >>>>
> >>>>      When in a retrievel or voculary mapping application each pref-
> >>>> and altLabel is used as synoym for each other, this creates nasty
> >>>> problems: If, e.g., the user searches for “Elite”, she also gets
> >>>> documents with “Middle class” and “Working class”.____
> >>>>
> >>>>      __ __
> >>>>
> >>>>      We consider introducing some custom sub-property of
> >>>> skos:altLabel to differentiate the cases, like this:____
> >>>>
> >>>>      __ __
> >>>>
> >>>>      :xyz skos:prefLabel “Social class” ;____
> >>>>
> >>>>           skos:altLabel “Social background” ;____
> >>>>
> >>>>           custom:altLabelNarrower “Elite”, “Middle class”, “Working
> >>>> class” .____
> >>>>
> >>>>      __ __
> >>>>
> >>>>      Is anybody aware of custom specializations of skos:altLabel
> >>>> for quasi-synonyms we could re-use?____
> >>>>
> >>>>      __ __
> >>>>
> >>>>      Any hints appreciated – cheers, Joachim____
> >>>>
> >>>>      __ __
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> *
> >>>> *
> >>>> *Thomas Francart* -*SPARNA*
> >>>> Web de _données_ | Architecture de l'_information_ | Accès aux
> >>>> _connaissances_ blog : blog.sparna.fr <http://blog.sparna.fr>, site :
> >>>> sparna.fr <http://sparna.fr>, linkedin :
> >>>> fr.linkedin.com/in/thomasfrancart
> >>>> <https://fr.linkedin.com/in/thomasfrancart>
> >>>> tel :  +33 (0)6.71.11.25.97, skype : francartthomas
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> *****************************************************
> >> Stella Dextre Clarke
> >> Vice-Chair, ISKO UK and Vice-President, ISKO Luke House, West
> >> Hendred, Wantage, OX12 8RR, UK
> >> Tel: 01235-833-298
> >> stella@lukehouse.org
> >> *****************************************************
> >>
> >

Received on Thursday, 13 April 2017 08:23:08 UTC