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Re: [SKOS] languages and scripts

From: Bernard Vatant <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 17:07:08 +0100
Message-ID: <45CB4AAC.9050201@mondeca.com>
To: Jakob Voss <jakob.voss@gbv.de>
Cc: public-esw-thes@w3.org

Hi Jakob

Seems we are very close indeed. Thanks for merging the pages!

I think your approach of making a combination of tags a narrower concept 
of each component is better than mine, and I would be indeed happy to 
get rid of owl classes altogether, but nevertheless capture in some way 
that #zh is a primary language, #Hant a script (right?) and #HK a region.
Soo ... maybe we could simply define a "tagType" attribute to flag the 
simple tags (lang is the default namespace, whatever that will be)

<skos:Concept rdf:about='#zh'>
  <skos:prefLabel>zh</skos:prefLabel>
  <skos:altLabel>Chinese</skos:altLabel>
  <lang:tagType rdf:resource="#PrimaryLanguage">
  <dc:date>2005-10-16</dc:date>
</skos:Concept>

Typing without classes is certainly better in this case than subclassing 
skos:Concept, because otherwise we will have a quite weird conceptScheme 
with concepts in different classes, with common narrower concepts with 
none of those. Very bizarre ...

And we also forget about any "Language" class, which is certainly a good 
idea, and actually going around the difficulty of defining what "is"a 
language.  Which I gladly buy (because nobody will ever be able to 
define what a language is).

I now look at my example document 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French, written in en-US about fr-CA 
to see how it flies:

  <foaf:Document rdf:about="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French">
    <dc:language rdf:resource="&lang;en-US"/>
    <dc:subject rdf:resource="&lang;fr-CA">
  </foaf:Document>

Not bad. We have in your model
lang:en-US   skos:broader   lang:en
lang:en-US   skos:broader   lang:US

So I will find my document by looking under either "lang:en" or 
"lang:US" indexes. Seems to fly well indeed. :-)

Bernard


Jakob Voss a écrit :
> Bernard Vatant wrote:
>
>   
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-esw-thes/2006Dec/0033.html
>>
>> I'd never had any feedback about the latter, although we are now well
>> ahead into the next year ... :-(
>> but seems that Jakob is walking along similar lines.
>> Jakob, did you look at http://esw.w3.org/topic/Languages_as_RDF_Resources?
>> What do you think?
>>     
>
> Thanks for pointing me to your proposal. I merged the pages but there
> are some differences between our approaches. I'd completely build upon
> SKOS instead of using different classes and OWL:
>
> <skos:Concept rdf:about='#zh'>
>   <skos:prefLabel>zh</skos:prefLabel>
>   <skos:altLabel>Chinese</skos:altLabel>
>   <dc:date>2005-10-16</dc:date>
> </skos:Concept>
> <skos:Concept rdf:about='#Hant'>
>   <skos:prefLabel>Hant</skos:prefLabel>
>   <skos:altLabel>Han (Traditional variant)</skos:altLabel>
>   <dc:date>2005-10-16</dc:date>
> </skos:Concept>
> <skos:Concept rdf:about='#HK'>
>   <skos:prefLabel>HK</skos:prefLabel>
>   <skos:altLabel>Hong Kong</skos:altLabel>
>   <dc:date>2005-10-16</dc:date>
> </skos:Concept>
> <skos:Concept rdf:about='#zh-Hant'>
>   <skos:prefLabel>zh-Hant</skos:prefLabel>
>   <skos:altLabel>traditional Chinese</skos:altLabel>
>   <dc:date>2003-05-30</dc:date>
>   <skos:broader rdf:resource='#zh'/>
>   <skos:broader rdf:resource='#Hant'/>
> </skos:Concept>
> <skos:Concept rdf:about='#zh-Hant-HK'>
>   <skos:prefLabel>zh-Hant-HK</skos:prefLabel>
>   <skos:altLabel>Hong Kong Chinese in traditional script</skos:altLabel>
>   <dc:date>2005-04-11</dc:date>
>   <skos:broader rdf:resource='#zh-Hant'/>
>   <skos:broader rdf:resource='#HK'/>
> </skos:Concept>
>
> But as far as I understand this is no contradiction - my proposal may be
> a less detailed subset of yours.
>
> By the way I'd prefer to use skos:notation and/or skos:title and
> skos:Coordination but these are not defined yet.
>
> Greetings,
> Jakob
>
>
>   

-- 

*Bernard Vatant
*Knowledge Engineering
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*Mondeca**
*3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France
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Mail:     bernard.vatant@mondeca.com <mailto:bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>
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Received on Thursday, 8 February 2007 16:07:32 GMT

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