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Re: Fwd: what do you mean, e-gov?

From: Hatem Ben Yacoub <hatemben@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:32:12 +0300
Message-ID: <CAEOj1iEBC=1QeNDC-pgEDHk5ssu3_02CSbq3OAUK1Je2SgPwgg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "eGov IG (Public)" <public-egov-ig@w3.org>
Greetings all,

I joined recently this IG, and still looking at current work status to
be up-to-date. Two points that I wanted to add to this discussion on
defining eGov

1- The scope of work of this IG comparing to the GLD working group as
both group's work is interconnected.  I saw mention of transparency,
openness, democracy, while I highly support, I think this is more
related to the GLD group's work. Also it's definitely important to
define, so this have to be done anyway here or there. I have tried to
illustrate how eGov can support OpenGov in the image attached (also
available here https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1nLqsnkWv2fz6VkUGDyS3dNkxEriJIW6ZUNraIAGr_kA/edit).

OpenGov and OpenData is more related to political decision, however
eGov is more related to the use of ICT in the government procedures.
It's possible to see Governments use ICT without seeing really any
transparency or openness of data.

2- from the charter's scope http://www.w3.org/egov/IG/charter-2011 :
"ways to use or promote the use of W3C technologies to improve
government services and operations". and i have found many of these
technologies mentioned in this paper for example
http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/NOTE-egov-improving-20090512/. Instead of
providing notes and definitions, I think (and I suggest) we should
provide a framework of processes to use for eGov implementation. This
could be a separate project, or the core work of this IG. The
framework's processes defined from different knowledge areas related
to eGov and ICT, and this will guide Governments towards implementing
eGovernment.

Thank you
-Hatem

On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 6:04 PM, Paola Di Maio <paola.dimaio@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mick
>
>
>> Along with a definition of e-gov you'll then need a definition of democracy.
>
>
> There are different models for democracy, and that is probably where
> the freedom of any country to select the most appropriate to their
> culture/situation
>
> http://www.democracy-building.info/systems-democracy.html
>
> in turn, different forms of eGov  follow , that is something we may be
> interested in discussing here further
>
>
> PDM
>
>
>> Many of us are in representative democracies; what aspects of e-government
>> require/lead to is direct democracy - I labelled this one of the 'antinomies
>> of modern government'. True e-government and representative democracy aren't
>> compatible...
>>
>> Mick http://greatemancipator.com
>>
>> On 27 April 2012 11:47, Paola Di Maio <paola.dimaio@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you Tomasz
>>>
>>>
>>> > The W3C definition of EGOV is at the top of http://www.w3.org/egov/:
>>> > "eGovernment is the use of the Web and other information technologies
>>> > by governments to interact with the citizenry, between departments and
>>> > divisions, and with other governments".
>>>
>>> Who wrote this definition? (should the provenance of the working
>>> definition be stated?)
>>>
>>> How do we know that this definition is adequate for our purpose, and
>>> represents the view of the list members?
>>> (certainly it does not represent my view of e-Gov, and others
>>> we have heard so far) :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems to me that such a definition reinforces the structural gap
>>> between
>>> 'governement' and 'citizenry', rather than diminishing it.
>>>
>>> Many of us like to think,for example, that citizens *are* the
>>> government, before they given a blue collar and transformed into fuel
>>> for the bureaucratic, dysfunctional political machinery
>>>
>>> Given appropriate democratic practices and adoption of technologies
>>> that support their participation, there should be no us and them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > This process could perhaps lead to the revision of the W3C definition..
>>>
>>>
>>> oh yes, please :-)
>>> Thank you
>>>
>>>
>>> PDM
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> >
>>> > Tomasz
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> In the definition below, I am particularly interested in the word
>>> >> *transformation.  *
>>> >> *
>>> >> *
>>> >> The question could be formulated as:
>>> >> how do bring transformation of traditional governance (from closed,
>>> >> secretive, self serving, corruption prone self established elites) to
>>> >>  e-governance (assuming we establish among the principles of self
>>> >> governance: opennes, transparency, serving the common good, accountable
>>> >> and
>>> >> participative)
>>> >
>>> >> Since you have a Phd on the subject, could it be a good idea if you
>>> >> started
>>> >> an essay on the topic, and get others to chip in?
>>> >> *
>>> >> *
>>> >> *Cheers*
>>> >> *
>>> >> *
>>> >> *PDM
>>> >> *
>>> >
>>> >> On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Mick Phythian
>>> >> <mick.phythian@gmail.com>wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>> Having done a PhD on the area, the one I settled on was in a Canadian
>>> >>> report by Roy (2006, p.x), he further refines ‘e-government’ as “The
>>> >>> continuous innovation in the delivery of services, citizen
>>> >>> participation,
>>> >>> and governance through the transformation of external and internal
>>> >>> relationships by the use of information  technology, especially the
>>> >>> Internet”.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Roy, J. (2006). *E-Government in Canada* (Reprinted 2008 ed.). Ottawa,
>>> >>> Canada: University of Ottawa.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Best of a bad bunch!
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Mick http://greatemancipator.com - still lurking
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 24 April 2012 20:09, Paola Di Maio <paola.dimaio@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> For those who have been around the last twenty years or any
>>> >>>> subset thereof, the question is not new. We each seem to
>>> >>>> use the same word with different meanings (anyone else laughing
>>> >>>> hysterically at this point?)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I was recently giving a talk and providing my own definition(s), and
>>> >>>> would have liked
>>> >>>> to point to the W3C definition of egov. But I could not remember
>>> >>>> whether
>>> >>>> we agreed on one, and where it can be accessed.  Admittedly I have
>>> >>>> been
>>> >>>> away a lot lately.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> For example,  for me egovernance applies to both
>>> >>>> the governance of civil society institutions (presumably the
>>> >>>> governance
>>> >>>> democratic institutions that are ruled by first principles, and the
>>> >>>> universal declaration of human rights, although in reality there may
>>> >>>> not be
>>> >>>> many governments that do so), as well as the governance of online
>>> >>>> communities, whereby the information and decisions are mediated by
>>> >>>> online
>>> >>>> technologies, or something like that. But not sure if this has been
>>> >>>> discussed
>>> >>>> I do not remember any such discussions on list. Is it my memory
>>> >>>> failing
>>> >>>> me again?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Any threads/uri's someone could kindly repost if these questions have
>>> >>>> already been asked?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>  if not, i would invite the IG Chairs to start off with some proposed
>>> >>>> definitions, either on list or on wiki page possibly one for each
>>> >>>> term in
>>> >>>> our shared vocabulary, (wiki? url......), then  members (other than
>>> >>>> pure
>>> >>>> lurkers) could introduce themseles and get their active participation
>>> >>>> in the
>>> >>>> group going by entering their own definitions/variations, with
>>> >>>> possibly a
>>> >>>> link to their profile
>>> >>>> so that we can start getting to know each other meaningfully?:-)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> sincerely
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> PDM
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Mick Phythian PhD
>>> >>>
>>> >>> http://greatemancipator.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mick Phythian PhD
>>
>> http://greatemancipator.com
>>
>>
>>
>



Roleofe-GovermenttosupportOpenGovOpenData.jpg
(image/jpeg attachment: Roleofe-GovermenttosupportOpenGovOpenData.jpg)

Received on Wednesday, 2 May 2012 15:07:20 GMT

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