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RE: Request for feedback: Changes to Revised DCAT Editors' Draft since 2nd PWD

From: <andrea.perego@ec.europa.eu>
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 09:17:00 +0000
To: <Nicholas.Car@csiro.au>
CC: <kcoyle@kcoyle.net>, <public-dxwg-wg@w3.org>, <L.Svensson@dnb.de>
Message-ID: <EDFF15E839F79242AA55B1468C63DDA914D9FFF7@S-DC-ESTG02-J.net1.cec.eu.int>
Thanks, Nick.

I think it may be worth re-reading one of the discussions we had on GH about licences, explaining also the use case for ODRS [1], and including feedback from Leigh Dodds (ODRS's author):

https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/114


For convenience, I copy-paste below the description of the purpose and scope of ODRS I gave in [1]:

[[
[…] Consider the following (quite common) scenario:

> I have two resources, both using CC-BY, but with different attribution and copyright notices. Attribution and copyright notice are clearly not part of the licence (CC-BY). So, where can I specify this information, and how can I link it to the relevant resource and its licence?

The ODRS approach is to attach attribution and copyright notice to a dct:RightsStatement (by using ad hoc properties), and then link the dct:RightsStatement to both the resource and the licence - which are also directly linked via dct:license. The diagram included in the ODRS specification (http://schema.theodi.org/odrs/) gives a clear picture of this pattern.

Note that ODRS addresses also other requirements - e.g., rights jurisdiction, being able to specify licence compatibility, having different licences/rights for a database and its content (about this, see the notion of sui generis database rights - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sui_generis_database_right).

More details are provided in the documentation accompanying ODRS:
- the  use cases (https://github.com/theodi/open-data-licensing/wiki/Use-cases) behind its design
- the publishers' guide (https://github.com/theodi/open-data-licensing/blob/master/guides/publisher-guide.md)
- the re-users' guide (https://github.com/theodi/open-data-licensing/blob/master/guides/reusers-guide.md)
]]

The use casea and guides mentioned in the last three lines above are particularly interesting, and give a precise idea of what ODRS is and what it can be used for.


Also, I would like to look a bit more into the relationship between ODRS and ODRL. I'm not at all questioning whether ODRL can do the job by ODRS. I'm rather more concerned on the level of complexity needed to do the same thing in the 2 vocabularies.

With respect to this, one of the advantages I see in ODRS is that it is just extending a bit the Dublin Core approach, adding a few properties, whereas, IMO, ODRL has the same complexity level of PROV. To my knowledge, the majority of data catalogues doesn't support PROV, so here ODRS is an option.

To summarise, my (provisional) understanding is:

If Dublin Core is not enough for you to express rights, use ODRL. But if you cannot support ODRL (for any reason), you can check if what ODRS offers is enough for you.

Andrea

----
[1] https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/114#issuecomment-382549650

[2] https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/114#issuecomment-382735860


----
Andrea Perego, Ph.D.
Scientific / Technical Project Officer
European Commission DG JRC
Directorate B - Growth and Innovation
Unit B6 - Digital Economy
Via E. Fermi, 2749 - TP 262
21027 Ispra VA, Italy

https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/


----
The views expressed are purely those of the writer and may
not in any circumstances be regarded as stating an official
position of the European Commission.

From: Car, Nicholas (L&W, Dutton Park) [mailto:Nicholas.Car@csiro.au]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 12:35 AM
To: Svensson, Lars
Cc: PEREGO Andrea (JRC-ISPRA); kcoyle@kcoyle.net; public-dxwg-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Request for feedback: Changes to Revised DCAT Editors' Draft since 2nd PWD

I’ve used ODRS for licences and rights for years in Australian data catalogues but won’t do so any more now that DCAT and ODRL exist. It had its time but that’s over.


http://schema.theodi.org/odrs/


Nick


Nicholas Car
Senior Experimental Scientist
CSIRO
nicholas.car@csiro.au<mailto:nicholas.car@csiro.au> | 0477 560 177


On 17 Jan 2019, at 5:22 am, Svensson, Lars <L.Svensson@dnb.de<mailto:L.Svensson@dnb.de>> wrote:
The cited page on LOV says "Vocabulary used in 0 datasets". I tried to look it up in stats.lod2.eu<http://stats.lod2.eu> but that site is not responding any more...

Best,

Lars


-----Original Message-----
From: andrea.perego@ec.europa.eu<mailto:andrea.perego@ec.europa.eu> [mailto:andrea.perego@ec.europa.eu]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 6:55 PM
To: kcoyle@kcoyle.net<mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net>
Cc: public-dxwg-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-dxwg-wg@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Request for feedback: Changes to Revised DCAT Editors' Draft since
2nd PWD

Hi, Karen.

Actually, it is in LOV:

https://lov.linkeddata.es/dataset/lov/vocabs/odrs


But I have no use statistics about it.

Andrea

----
Andrea Perego, Ph.D.
Scientific / Technical Project Officer
European Commission DG JRC
Directorate B - Growth and Innovation
Unit B6 - Digital Economy
Via E. Fermi, 2749 - TP 262
21027 Ispra VA, Italy

https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/


----
The views expressed are purely those of the writer and may
not in any circumstances be regarded as stating an official
position of the European Commission.


-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Coyle [mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 5:57 PM
To: public-dxwg-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-dxwg-wg@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Request for feedback: Changes to Revised DCAT Editors' Draft
since 2nd PWD

AHA! Thanks, Andrea - I did mis-read that. Is ODRS used much? I don't
find it at all at the Linked Open Vocabs site,[1] but that isn't
complete. It doesn't seem to have the "blessing" of a standards body.

kc
[1] https://lov.linkeddata.es/dataset/lov/terms?q=odrs


On 1/16/19 3:31 AM, andrea.perego@ec.europa.eu<mailto:andrea.perego@ec.europa.eu> wrote:
Hi, Karen.

[snip]

- a new section on


'Licenses<https://services.w3.org/htmldiff?doc1=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.

org%2FTR%2Fvocab-dcat-
2%2F&doc2=https%3A%2F%2Fw3c.github.io<http://2Fw3c.github.io>%2Fdxwg%2Fdcat#license-
rights>
and right statements' [3] was added to describe patterns for linking
dcat:Datasets and dcat:Distributions to the relevant license and rights
expressions.

I find the statements in point #3 referring to ODRL and copyright to be
a bit confusing, since actual ODRL licenses are covered shortly after
that. An example of using ODRL to give copyright info would be very
helpful here. (Also note typo at end of point 3 "statementss".)

Please note that in point #3 the reference is to ODRS
(https://schema.theodi.org/odrs/), not ODRL. I think we should take note
that the distinction between ODRS and ODRL needs to be somehow
highlighted in document.

+1 to having examples. I think this is what is actually missing from that
section, and it would help clarify our recommendations. I can take care of
preparing them - ideally, re-using examples already in the DCAT spec.

Thanks for noting the typo ("statementss"). I created a PR to fix it:
https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/669


Cheers,

Andrea

----
Andrea Perego, Ph.D.
Scientific / Technical Project Officer
European Commission DG JRC
Directorate B - Growth and Innovation
Unit B6 - Digital Economy
Via E. Fermi, 2749 - TP 262
21027 Ispra VA, Italy

https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/


----
The views expressed are purely those of the writer and may
not in any circumstances be regarded as stating an official
position of the European Commission.


--
Karen Coyle
kcoyle@kcoyle.net<mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net> http://kcoyle.net

m: 1-510-435-8234 (Signal)
skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600

Received on Thursday, 17 January 2019 09:17:29 UTC

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