W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-credentials@w3.org > April 2017

Re: UN peacekeepers 'barter goods for sex' - BBC News

From: Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 16:05:51 +0000
Message-ID: <CAM1Sok0S81AKzyf+VuzsUzZ5vTBBowDCkyCOqUwvsajmC7d6VQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Andrew Bransford Brown <andrewbb@gmail.com>
Cc: Kelly Sonderegger <ksondere@gmail.com>, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>, Kaliya IDwoman <kaliya-id@identitywoman.net>, W3C Credentials Community Group <public-credentials@w3.org>, Web Payments CG <public-webpayments@w3.org>
Here's something we've been working on for a while:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1mL0MsPpdxdKiYFWVIyGVOFzypBsjylxepACN2MYw-yg/edit#slide=id.p


i've provided links previously to help understand some of the underlying
technology ecosystems designs.  you might also find:
https://twitter.com/WebCivics/status/492707794760392704 useful, noting
again: http://www.dotnetrdf.org/ and
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cavage-http-signatures-06  and something
like: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4402090/?reload=true or as a
broader lifecycle related solution: http://www.mico-project.eu/technology/

i feel silly reposting the links previously noted in the thread as i know
they're outlined here:
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2017Apr/

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 at 02:00 Andrew Bransford Brown <andrewbb@gmail.com>
wrote:

Here's a common language based on contract law.
http://34.208.7.206/ContractsPage.aspx

Build some use-cases with it.



On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
wrote:

We're here to build use-cases that in-turn we can use to define an open and
free suite of technology standards that we can evaluate as being 'fit for
purpose' based upon prior art and the use-cases we elect as a counterpart
to the means in which to evaluate the success of our works.

I've added this use-case, and have provided examples of complimentary
technology standards (and related works) to reinforce the 'use-case
illustration'.

This is not about god, nor are the acts of 'crimes against humanity' or
individuals thereof.  this is about a design paradigm for the future of the
web, that has particular implications and timelines, and is a particularly
good illustration of the 'high stakes' nature of these works.  I'm sure
people in future want to make a profit from the undertakings of these
works.  I'll certainly sleep better having brought up the issue and having
proposed considerations of how to positively influence means in which to
make it less of an issue in all quarters of society world-wide.

whether anyone else thinks it's a good idea to think about potential
influences of these works in relation to biometric signatures (produced via
CV, Phonetics, analytics, etc.); and upon what terms they choose to do
so...  perhaps advertising and commerce support is most important.

well.  that's that's all much bigger than me.

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 at 01:29 Andrew Bransford Brown <andrewbb@gmail.com>
wrote:

The people at the top create contracts with the intention of reneging.
They don't feel guilt.  They are guilty.


"When the people of the world have a *common monetary language*, completely
freed from every government, it will so facilitate and stabilize exchange
that peace and prosperity will ensue even without world government.

A union of peoples rather than a union of political governments is what the
world needs."
E.C. Riegel, monetary theorist 1949.



On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
wrote:

perhaps make sure we write a minute 'not our problem' and/or 'we do not
have any influence on these issues' or 'out of scope'.

that'll help with the Identity related analysis, and provide the means for
others to do the necessary work.



On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 at 01:11 Kelly Sonderegger <ksondere@gmail.com> wrote:

Manu hits on the real point, as one who loves technology this issue doesn't
solve with technology.

We're uncomfortable to talk about the real solutions to problems like these
because of the ensuing wrath that always occurs.  And yet C.S.Lewis so well
speaks of a natural law of men, a law that tells us that things are not
what they should be.  It is of course the law of conscience, the law of
guilt.  Guilt is actually not a bad thing.  It is a good thing to recognize
and then seek to conform too a conscience that makes us feel guilty.
Acknowledging guilt recognizes this natural and unyielding law of our
conscience and makes society strive to become both accountable and better.
It is ultimately this idea that turned C.S. Lewis from atheist to Christian.

Though we condemn the idea of guilt these days ironically we live in a
shaming society which is far worse. A shaming society is perpetually
reactive and alarmed.  If you don't conform to the popular ideas of a
shaming society you are excluded based on the whims of what shamers believe
should be conformed too.

So what solves this issue?  The courage to speak more freely of the natural
law of conscience, to raise a sense of guilt on those who are guilty of
wrong doing.  And to speak to the fact that these things are wrong in the
site of a Just God.

And moving from there.

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 8:46 AM Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 at 00:10 Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com> wrote:

On 04/06/2017 09:31 PM, Kaliya IDwoman wrote:
> Man camps of all kinds create markets for sex. Smart contracts don't
> fix this problem

Strongly agree.

they were talking about children, not simply prostitution whereby i still
think there is a difference based upon the capacity to provide 'consent'
particularly in cases of 'modern slavery' and those of poor mental health.
 all of which can be use-cases for credentials / verifiable claims. .

similar yet different (lower-stakes) use case:
https://github.com/ouisharelabs/food-dashboard/issues/6  (haven't been able
to make much progress on that yet).


Technologists tend to incorrectly bias very heavily towards technology
solving problems that are fundamentally more social than technical. We
should measure our words more carefully, this thread being a case in point.

One of the problems with sex trafficking, among most other criminal
activity, is that the criminals don't care about rule of law and are
incredibly good at exploiting people for their own gain. Having a
perfect blockchain + smart contract solution isn't going to make a dent
in the problem unless it's also paired with a very well funded and
concerted political and social effort to reduce trafficking.


I still don't like the term 'blockchain' for some of these works.



We had the same issue at the last ID2020 event where some proposed
that Blockchain could "solve" the refugee problem.


looking at modular, pre-fab smart housing.  that seems like a better
scaffold.  After all, Trump's a builder...


These technologies may be used as a very small part of a solution, but
we should be very careful to NOT suggest that the technologies
themselves will address the issue.


Agreed.  But without appropriate technology design technology (or the
implementation style / use of technology) can be part of the problem.


That's not to say that we shouldn't incubate technologies that may be
used as part of a solution to a problem. We should just be very careful
to not suggest that they ARE the solution to the problem.


A bit like the invention of antibiotics - people will still get sick, and
people will still need to see a doctor - but perhaps infection rates can be
lowered by accessibility to good healthcare; and, the outcomes are even
better now we have drugs to treat problems alongside many other
advancements in medical technology; yet some regions may have business
systems where it's difficult to get the best of care.  Some regions may not
have access to good medical care, clean facilities or even clean water.

UN Peace-keepers causing medical issues by way of child sexual abuse upon
those of our species who are the least able to obtain care? that's not ok.

We're a bit like medical researchers for helping to produce the
'technology' that can help solve those problems, if we choose to be; and
the benefits will be most values by those with a 'clean health record', so
they can continue to do good and be recgonised for their efforts.

Inoculating kids; or perhaps something similar to Bill Gates goals for
polio; would be much better than improving the means for treatment, whilst
both are seemingly needed; and even better - these sorts of 'illnesses' are
indiscriminate - the kids wouldn't need to be simply protected from un
peace keepers - indeed, i imagine in greater volumes far more would
benefit!!!

Yet if we do not do this work well.  If we do not meet our challenges, then
our ability, our choices.  well.  IMHO, they do matter as a constituent of
solving these sorts of problem.  Honestly, i think it's an important
constituent.  Whether it be in relation to economic trade or other means;
it's a way to 'rethink good guys vs. bad guys'.

and try to ensure those who do the right thing; don't get harmed by those
who knowing do otherwise, with impunity.

building systems where the data about human activity is stored by the human
cannot access that data for safety / welfare / health?   because it's not
part of the advertising based business model?  that's a values statement
far more than it is a technology problem, yet due to lack of investment;
we're still here building technology.

So i hope we make improvements to the 'status quo' as other are also
suggesting
https://www.wired.com/2017/04/tim-berners-lee-inventor-web-plots-radical-overhaul-creation/


yet i'm still worried about the means and methods, as i've also outlined
here:
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2017Apr/0051.html

I also started on
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments/2014Jul/0043.html years
ago; and haven't seen much progress on that yet either (noting it's been a
really difficult road with too few hands and some incredible ones...)

:)

tim.H




-- manu

--
Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny)
Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
blog: Rebalancing How the Web is Built
http://manu.sporny.org/2016/rebalancing/
Received on Friday, 7 April 2017 16:06:41 UTC

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