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Credentials CG Telecon Minutes for 2015-11-24

From: <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 13:51:28 -0500
Message-Id: <1448391088940.0.11480@zoe>
To: Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>
Thanks to Dave Longley and Brian Sletten for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's Credentials CG telecon are now available:


Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).

Credentials Community Group Telecon Minutes for 2015-11-24

  1. Introduction to Dan Burnett
  2. WPIG / Verifiable Claims After Action Review
  3. Goals for Next Week's Meeting
  4. Administrivia for Next Week's Meeting
  Manu Sporny
  Dave Longley and Brian Sletten
  Dave Longley, Manu Sporny, Daniel C. Burnett, Brian Sletten, 
  Richard Varn, Shane McCarron, John Tibbetts, Nate Otto, Viktor 
  Haag, Sunny Lee, Carla Casili, Rob Trainer, Matt Collier, Henry 
  Story, David I. Lehn, Stuart Sutton, Deb Everhart, Eric Korb, 
  Dmitriy Nesterkin

Dave Longley is scribing.
Manu Sporny:  Any updates/additions to the agenda?

Topic: Introduction to Dan Burnett

Daniel C. Burnett:  Hi, everyone. I have a background background 
  in speech recognition and have worked for a number of companies 
  such as Nuance. I started working with W3C in '99 on voice XML, 
  the standards related to it, etc. I've been doing work at W3C and 
  IETF for a number of years now. Most recently I've been working 
  on WebRTC where I'm one of the spec editors for the two primary 
  specs. That's for my company, this group I'm personally 
  interested in. I first heard about it a year ago. Just listening 
  in I thought it was interesting and didn't have a chance to 
  follow it. I'm independent now, I do my WebRTC work for a company 
  but my participating here is as personal.
Daniel C. Burnett:  I'll set up a separate individual account 
  with W3C in the future and join that way. Thank you to all of 
  you, this is great work that the world really needs.
Manu Sporny:  Thanks for joining us!

Topic: WPIG / Verifiable Claims After Action Review

Brian Sletten is scribing.
Manu Sporny: 
Manu Sporny:  We had a proposal that we ran through the WP IG and 
  W3C staff and a bunch of external companies not in this group to 
  discuss creating a Task Force to see if they should pursue a 
  group on Credentials, Verifiable Claims, etc. The conversation 
  was yesterday and it went very well. We made the proposal to be 
  aligned with the W3C's expectations about the work (it is modular 
  and broken down). It showed interest from a lots of gr
Manu Sporny:  Went well. We don't have a Task Force yet, but we 
  are close. There were discussions about what should be in scope. 
  There was an agreement on the end of the call to have an open 
  discuss next Tuesday to discuss the problem statement in more 
  depth. Everyone on this call is invited. Once we have the problem 
  statement crisp, we will pull people who have expressed concern 
  in and document their thoughts. If we are successful in 
Manu Sporny:  We will produce a W3C Working Group Charter.
Manu Sporny: 
Manu Sporny: https://www.w3.org/2015/11/23-wpay-minutes.html
Manu Sporny:  This is a summary of the outcome and the minutes 
  (member only).
Manu Sporny: 
Manu Sporny:  This is the TF proposal.
Manu Sporny:  That's how things went. Richard Varn, I would be 
  interested in your thoughts on how it went.
Richard Varn:  I heard this "interested but unconvinced" 
Richard Varn:  There is focused interest in particular technical 
  issues that they miss the larger social good. There is an 
  obsession in process. I'm not sure if they got why working with 
  us is important. They seem to see it as a nice-to-have addition 
  not a requirement for what they are doing.
Manu Sporny:  Those are fair comments, let me try to explain the 
Manu Sporny:  Obsessed about details and process are the easiest 
  ones to explain. Those came from someone who thinks the group 
  isn't doing enough, but you should also do tokenization and 
  identity on the Web. Tackle the Big Problems, not just the small 
Manu Sporny:  PII in the financial space is a hot potato and 
  nobody wants to touch it. Tokenization could help solve the 
  problem. Go ahead and tackle those issue.
Manu Sporny:  He agrees with us, he just wants us to do more.
Manu Sporny:  The obsessed with process one... W3C has a process 
  and it has been whittled into the form it is over 15-20. It 
  serves them well, so they like to see things fit into the process 
  they have. They are trying to be helpful. They said, "We think 
  the vision of this group is grand and fantastic and we all want 
  to see it. We need to convince the membership and they are only 
  going to spend 15 min looking at the proposal before they
Manu Sporny:  "We see gaps and are looking for talking points to 
  help us talk to people and get more support."
Dave Longley: (Just wanted to add that process + obsession with 
  details problems combined such that we weren't supposed to 
  mention specific technology solutions to say "the tokenization 
  thing can easily be solved with the Credentials CG credential 
  technology too" ... because the process prohibited us from saying 
Manu Sporny:  I've seen the list they have and it is different 
  than our list, but very exciting if we can get them involved 
  (from financial institutions, education, health care, etc.)
Manu Sporny:  What were the other things, Richard?
Shane McCarron: Remember that the complete environment is a 
  gestalt...  At some point all of the pieces will be assembled and 
  then the whole will be greater than the parts
Richard Varn:  The four things we are looking at are all big 
  issues, we aren't trying to solve all of them, but manage the 
  relationships between them. I think they think we are not crucial 
  to around what they are doing.
Manu Sporny:  Last week I spoke to them and they suggested maybe 
  we should focus on Education and Health Care rather than every 
  one as a starting point.
Manu Sporny:  But it is important to the Financial groups and 
  managing the identity of transactions. The other part is how web 
  payments flow and there is a lot of overlap and we think we can 
  handle the straight payment process with a credential API.
Manu Sporny:  Not everyone has the same pain points, but we think 
  there is a wide support.
Shane McCarron: The one time task example yesterday was about 
  customer onboarding - sign up.  I thought
Manu Sporny:  Any other questions about the direction we are 
Manu Sporny:  Let's chat about what can happen here on out.

Topic: Goals for Next Week's Meeting

Manu Sporny: 
Manu Sporny:  I sent out a proposal to the CG proposing we 
  postpone these calls until further notice. The ones that will 
  start next Tuesday in same time frame will be for the Verified 
  Claims Task Force. It will be a different dial-in number. There 
  will be other members from the WP IG.
Manu Sporny:  W3C wants to make sure everyone is good with the 
  problem statement. We want it to be crisp so that it is easy for 
  someone to understand what we are trying to do easily.
Manu Sporny:  Please review the problem statement again before 
  the call next week. If you want to modify it, come up with 
  specific text. There will be new people and they'll have 
  open-ended conversations about the goal, but we'll only make 
  progress if we have concrete statements and text to discuss.
Manu Sporny: http://w3c.github.io/vctf/
Manu Sporny:  Call next week, same date and time. We're going to 
  focus on the problem statement. If we get through it, we can move 
  onto scoping, phasing, who the stakeholders are, how we are going 
  to run the meetings, etc. But, primarily we will focus on the 
  problem statement until the W3C thinks we have talked it to 
Manu Sporny:  This is the new page for the task force.
Manu Sporny:  It has the dial in details, etc.
John Tibbetts:  Is this a renaming/replacing of credentials or is 
  this a sidetrack or we will return credentials?
Nate Otto: +1 I like "Credentials"
Dave Longley: +1 Going back to Credentials once we get everything 
  sorted out and various newcomers involved.
Nate Otto: But +1 to being sensitive to other people's 
  preconceived notions about credentials, and +1 to putting off 
  bikeshedding the name until later.
Shane McCarron: The name is for marketing purposes.  who are we 
  marketing to?
Manu Sporny:  We changed the name because we were told calling it 
  Credentials alienated people for some reason. We can change the 
  name back if we agree to, but we need to tie it to the problem 
  statement. "Verifiable claims" doesn't mean anything specific, 
  but that may be why it doesn't bother people as much.
Manu Sporny:  If we do it right, there will only be one group 
  moving forward.
Shane McCarron: There is concern that this is an echo chamber?
Manu Sporny:  We need to go into the discussion not talking about 
  technology. There was concern that we didn't entertain other 
  perspectives. The TF is an attempt to test whether this is an 
  echo chamber before moving forward and talking about technology.
Shane McCarron: +1 That this is somewhat about rebranding.  Also 
  about adoption
Manu Sporny:  We don't see this becoming a competing stack to 
  what we are proposing, but there could be something cobbled 
  together with other technology but they will have to come up with 
  a counterproposal.
Manu Sporny:  In summary, the CG process is broken because you 
  may have to start over again. But, I think because we've done so 
  much work, it should go faster.

Topic: Administrivia for Next Week's Meeting

Manu Sporny: http://w3c.github.io/vctf/
Manu Sporny:  Any other questions? Here is the dial-in 
  information again. We will send out an email probably today to 
  set up the meeting for next Tuesday. Number changes. IRC Channel 
Manu Sporny:  We are going to scribe and record the audio for the 
  calls to make sure we get anyone's concerns on record.
Manu Sporny:  If not, we can end early. Thanks again to everyone. 
  We are making good progress. I can see the light at the end of 
  the tunnel. Thank you for everyone who helped us get here.
Received on Tuesday, 24 November 2015 18:51:52 UTC

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