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RE: Caption for video in foreign language ( LC-2942)

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 02:22:56 +0000
To: "Makoto UEKI - Infoaxia, Inc." <makoto.ueki@gmail.com>
CC: "public-comments-wcag20@w3.org" <public-comments-wcag20@w3.org>
Message-ID: <07f9ad06f25e4bc2b0941ac285816a5c@BY2PR02MB171.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Makoto,
The following is my interpretation of the group's discussion and doesn't indicate an official response, but may help clarify.

The captions and the subtitles don't need to be shown at the same time of course.

In WCAG 2.0 captions are conveying a text alternative to the audible content, which means that the language of the captions needs to match the language of the audio.  The group does understand that this will not help many deaf or hard of hearing users, but this makes these users at the same disadvantage as hearing users who don't understand the spoken language.  In these situations it is typical that the video also has subtitles, which help users who can hear the content read what is said, and helps deaf and hard of hearing users in the same way.  This subtitle track helps all users who don't understand the language spoken, so it is not directly covered or required by WCAG.

What is missing for the deaf and hard of hearing users is the non-spoken information.  There are text captions for the non-spoken information in the captions that are in the same language, which doesn't help these users, which is why the WG said " To support the greatest number of viewers the WCAG working group encourages that the subtitles providing the translation include additional information such as sound effects and speaker identification."  Given that the subtitle track is a translation and WCAG isn't requiring it, we can only encourage that this information is provided in the subtitles.

For example, if a video shown on an English site is in the French language, the captions need to be in French.  The video would be subtitled to enable the English-speaking members of the audience to understand the content, including deaf and hard of hearing users. While subtitles are often just a translation of the spoken words, the WCAG WG also recommends that the subtitles include the additional information for non-spoken audio information. 

Does this help understand the response?

Thanks,
AWK

-----Original Message-----
From: Makoto UEKI - Infoaxia, Inc. [mailto:makoto.ueki@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:45 PM
To: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Cc: public-comments-wcag20@w3.org
Subject: Re: Caption for video in foreign language ( LC-2942)

Dear WCAG WG,

Thank you so much for your response.

Does it mean that authors should provide captions in English and subtitles in Japanese on the same screen?

Aside from it, there are many cases where a person speaks English in a video intended for Japanese users. In such case, providing captions in English is almost meaningless because nobody needs captions in English. I'd like to recommend to provide captions in Japanese even if a person speaks English. That's what Japanese users who need captions want to read on the screen.

So if you mean that authors should provide captions in English to meet SC, I can't live with it. I'd like to suggest the following sentence to be added to Understanding WCAG 2.0, "The translation is also acceptable if it would be more useful and helpful for intended users to understand the video content."


2014-08-27 3:06 GMT+09:00  <akirkpat@adobe.com>:
>  Dear Makoto Ueki ,
>
> The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group has reviewed 
> the comments you sent [1] on the Last Call Working Draft [2] of the 
> Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 2.0 published on 11 Dec 
> 2008. Thank you for having taken the time to review the document and to send us comments!
>
> The Working Group's response to your comment is included below.
>
> Please review it carefully and let us know by email at 
> public-comments-wcag20@w3.org if you agree with it or not before 1 
> september 2014. In case of disagreement, you are requested to provide 
> a specific solution for or a path to a consensus with the Working 
> Group. If such a consensus cannot be achieved, you will be given the 
> opportunity to raise a formal objection which will then be reviewed by 
> the Director during the transition of this document to the next stage 
> in the W3C Recommendation Track.
>
> Thanks,
>
> For the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group, Michael 
> Cooper W3C Staff Contact
>
>  1. http://www.w3.org/mid/E1X74bc-00079r-G5@stuart.w3.org
>  2. http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/
>
>
> =====
>
> Your comment on 1.2.2 Captions (Prerecorded): Captions are provided 
> for
> al...:
>> Name: Makoto Ueki
>> Email: makoto.ueki@gmail.com
>> Affiliation:
>> Document: W2
>> Item Number: Success Criterion 1.2.2
>> Part of Item:
>> Comment Type: question
>> Summary of Issue: Caption for video in foreign language Comment 
>> (Including rationale for any proposed change):
>> When a video is presented in foreign language, which language should 
>> be used for caption?
>>
>> For example, a video is embeded in a Japanese web page. In the video, 
>> a person speaks English. But the video is intended for Japanese users.
>> Which language should the author use for adding caption to the video 
>> in order to meet SC 1.2.2, Japanese or English?
>>
>> Proposed Change:
>> Just want to clarify. Thank you very much in advance for your time.
>
>
> Working Group Resolution (LC-2942):
> The goal of the captions as defined in 1.2.2 is to provide access to 
> the video content for deaf and hard of hearing users, but can be 
> confusing regarding which language to provide the captions.
>
> The working group believes that captions are intended to be the same 
> language as the audio, so captions for a video where a person speaks 
> English would be in the English language regardless of where the video 
> is displayed.
>
> To provide information appropriate for Japanese native speakers who do 
> not understand English, the web site or video provider may elect to 
> provide subtitles with a translation of the content from English to 
> Japanese.  The WCAG definition of captions differs from subtitles in 
> that captions include text for non-spoken information, whereas 
> subtitles typically provide just a translation of the spoken 
> information in a video.  To support the greatest number of viewers the 
> WCAG working group encourages that the subtitles providing the 
> translation include additional information such as sound effects and speaker identification.
>
> The working group acknowledges that this is an area that may require 
> further consideration as it considers requirements for possible future 
> changes to the WCAG specification, and as a result we have included 
> notes about this issue in our wiki for future reference.
>
> ----
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 27 August 2014 02:23:35 UTC

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