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Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP

From: Jacob Champion <champion.p@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 09:36:38 -0800
To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <9f583989-5aab-9279-5839-13dc8ea99b4b@gmail.com>
On 12/02/2016 03:33 AM, Cory Benfield wrote:
> I assume that what you mean here is you can’t deploy a H2 *only*
> server that also does WS: that is, a server with no HTTP/1.1 stack.
>
> To which I reply: so what? Last I looked no-one was deploying servers
> that can *only* do HTTP/2 except in very specific cases where they
> are deliberately seeing the HTTP/2 use-cases (the only two instances
> I know of are Apple’s new Push Notification Service and Amazon’s
> Alexa API, both of which are HTTP/2 only: presumably they considered
> and rejected the use of WS, and it didn’t stop them shipping their
> product).
>
> I don’t think anyone is planning to move to a HTTP/2-only server
> stack anytime soon, and we have a whole bunch of servers that have
> mature and battle-tested HTTP/1.1 stacks that aren’t going anywhere.
> So I’m not really convinced that there’s any demand for H2-only + WS.
> Of course, I might be wrong (I’m wrong a lot).

I think this ends up being a circular argument. If people rely on both 
HTTP/2 and WS, but WS requires HTTP/1.1, then they will not demand an 
HTTP/2-only stack. Likewise with the Amazon and Apple examples: they're 
going to ship what works; it doesn't necessarily mean the engineers 
didn't want something different. (Perhaps there are employees watching 
the list who can chime in?)

This is not a server-only thing, either. A conforming WebSocket client 
has to implement enough of HTTP/1.1 to handle, or at least correctly 
bail out from, any pre-upgrade shenanigans such as 3xx redirects, 401 
authentications, Set-Cookies, etc.

(For the record, my background is primarily in the embedded security 
space, where opportunities to consolidate and reduce software footprint 
-- and attack surface -- are pretty much always welcomed.)

--Jacob
Received on Friday, 2 December 2016 17:37:18 UTC

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