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RE: Submission: deltav subset

From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@greenbytes.de>
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:43:40 +0200
To: "Peter Raymond" <Peter.Raymond@merant.com>, <ietf-dav-versioning@w3.org>
Message-ID: <JIEGINCHMLABHJBIGKBCIEDFDFAA.julian.reschke@greenbytes.de>
RE: Submission: deltav subsetPeter,

regarding "Strong typed properties (eg this property only contains
dates/numbers/list of valid values etc)": I would be interested to get some
feedback on my proposal "datatype for WebDAV properties" [1], which is
already supported by our server.



  -----Original Message-----
  From: ietf-dav-versioning-request@w3.org
[mailto:ietf-dav-versioning-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Peter Raymond
  Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 2:33 PM
  To: Jim Amsden; ietf-dav-versioning@w3.org
  Subject: RE: Submission: deltav subset


  I agree with Jim that deltav needs some time to see what issues people
  find during implementation and to iron out some of the issues we already
  know about.

  In my opinion the group needs to spend some time looking at existing
  working on scenarios, FAQs, clarifications to the specification, sorting
  packaging issues, etc.  Many members of deltav are also in the webdav
  that specification needs to be revised (to move along the standards
  ACL, DASL and advanced collections need to be completed.  This sounds like
  plenty of work to keep the group busy :-)

  Over time APIs like the proposed JSR-147 will help get implementations up
  running and we can see what issues we find during interop testing.

  I would be interested in proposals to extend deltav for:

  Change/Issue Management (and simple Workflow),
  Event Notification (servers letting clients know when resources/properties
  Multi-part mime requests (setting properties and doing an operation in one
  Strong typed properties (eg this property only contains dates/numbers/list
of valid values etc).

  The larger specs like Change Management could run in a separate working
  As WebDAV becomes more widely adopted and the web is used as a writeable
medium I
  expect many users will require some kind of change/task/issue management
and workflow
  to help them control and manage the changes.

  MERANT has been doing some work on Change Management extensions to WebDAV
  I would be interested to see how our thoughts on this subject match up (or
not) with
  those of other members of the WebDAV community.

  Peter Raymond - MERANT
  Principal Architect (PVCS)
  Tel: +44 (0)1727 813362
  Fax: +44 (0)1727 869804
  WWW: http://www.merant.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Jim Amsden [mailto:jamsden@us.ibm.com]
  Sent: 23 October 2001 01:41
  To: ietf-dav-versioning@w3.org
  Subject: Re: Submission: deltav subset

  We're not talking about shutting down DeltaV just yet. As I pointed out
  below, the spec isn't an Internet Standard yet, we still have quite a ways
  to go. However, the current working group has fulfilled its charter and
  its time to update it or create a new one. The work that remains is to see
  how well the spec is adopted, both by clients and servers, and how well we
  met our goals, including interoperability objectives. To do this I think
  we need some "quiet time" where we aren't making substantive changes to
  the spec so developers have something stable to build from. Once we have
  more experience, we should see what work is left to do and establish a new
  charter to address it. This doesn't need to be a continuation of DeltaV,
  but it could be. We have an established community and infrastructure
  (webdav.org and the DeltaV mailing list). Depending on what surfaces, we
  may want to leverage the existing working group for continuity.

  In an case, if DeltaV did shutdown, the process would be to hold a BOF at
  an IETF meeting to introduce ideas and gather interest, develop a new
  charter spelling out the activities of a new working group, getting AD
  approval, and doing the work by submitting Internet drafts. This is
  certainly the right way to go for significant new features like change
  management for example. But for expedience, fixing details and
  interoperability problems in the current spec should probably be done in
  the context of the current working group.

  Roy Seto <Roy.Seto@oracle.com>
  Sent by: ietf-dav-versioning-request@w3.org
  10/22/2001 04:55 PM

          To:     ietf-dav-versioning@w3.org
          Subject:        Re: Submission: deltav subset

  If the WG shuts down, what is the accepted mechanism for hashing out
  protocol usage issues that surface during implementation?
  Jim Amsden wrote:

  I'm inclined to declare victory on our DeltaV charter and let some servers
  get built on what we have before we start making a lot of immediate
  changes. Of course I would welcome any BOF to determine level of interest
  in extensions, new packages, etc. DeltaV is now firmly on the standards
  track. The next step is to get some implementation and determine
  interoperability issues. If the community fragments immediately on
  different packages that aren't interoperable in meaningful ways, then
  certainly that's good information for the standards process that would
  need to be addressed. But I think the community would benefit from
  attempting to implement the spec as written so we encourage
  As for shutting down DeltaV, we're only at proposed standard. We could
  consider updating the charter to move to the next stage in the lifecycle.
  I would be happy to entertain suggestions as to the content of such a
  charter, and if there's sufficient interest, we can propose the next set
  of work items to the AD's as either continuation of DeltaV (with a new
  charter), or other working groups focused on more specific tasks.

  "Jim Whitehead" <ejw@cse.ucsc.edu>
  10/18/2001 06:36 PM

          To:        "Clemm, Geoff" <gclemm@rational.com>, "'Lisa
  Dusseault'" <lisa@xythos.com>, "Jim Amsden" <jamsden@us.ibm.com>
          Subject:        RE: Submission: deltav subset

  Geoff Clemm writes:
  > I think it is more appropriate to keep it as an
  > individual submission until the working group has had
  > a chance to review/iterate on it.
  This may be true, but IETF policy does say that it is the Chair's
  on whether a document is a WG draft or an individual submission.
  I was just pointing out that Jim may cause friction with the ADs if, by
  making a new WG draft, he extends the life of DeltaV when they think it's
  close to being shut down. I imagine they are keen to avoid another WebDAV
  But, even if Jim does decide that it should not be a new draft, it would
  well within Lisa's rights to hold a BOF at the next IETF with an eye
  creating a new WG, "SDV" (simple Delta V), say.
  - Jim
Received on Wednesday, 24 October 2001 08:43:38 UTC

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