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Re: tidy (fwd)

From: Charles Reitzel <creitzel@rcn.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 23:20:01 -0400
Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20020517231313.033bc200@pop.rcn.com>
To: Allan Clark <allanc@caldera.com>
Cc: Dave Raggett <dsr@w3.org>, html-tidy@w3.org, webmaster@danzon.com
A couple things:

a) if the software can safely determine for itself if a newline will affect 
rendering, then that is definitely better than a toggle.  Tidy has too many 
toggles as it is (that is, too many to be learned and effectively used by 
most users).

b) does the application of styles on TD elements have any impact on browser 
behavior?  My experience developing page layouts to the pixel is that these 
render the same:

<TD>Some text</TD>

<TD>
Some text
</TD>

But, I always had a style applied to <TD> and explicitly set column widths, 
etc.  So I wonder if anyone has ever done any systematic experimentation 
with browsers around this?

take it easy,
Charlie



At 07:33 PM 5/17/2002 -0400, Allan Clark wrote:
>Dave;
>
>You're saying that Tidy assumes whether to put the </td> on its own line 
>based on the contents of the <td> tag.
>
>I don't see how you've invalidated webmaster@danzon.com's feature request 
>to have control over this behavior.
>
>I think what you're implying is that Tidy makes an intelligent guess as to 
>whether the </td> should be on its own line, and that this guess is better 
>than the effort of doing this feature.
>
>My life is not impacted; just summarizing.  Don't get me wrong, I really 
>have no invested emotion in the outcome of this.
>
>Allan
>
>
>
>Dave Raggett wrote:
> >
> > Tidy already checks the content for td elements to see whether
> > they have block level or inline content. If the latter, the </td>
> > isn't moved to the next line.
> >
> >  <td><p>....</p></td>
> >
> >  <td>
> >  <p>...</p>
> >  </td>
> >
> > render the same, although
> >
> >  <td>some text</td>
> >
> > and
> >
> >  <td>
> >    some text
> >  </td>
> >
> > may not.
> >
> > On Fri, 17 May 2002, Allan Clark wrote:
> >
> > > It looks to me like this request can be summed up and compressed as:
> > >
> > > Feature Request:
> > > please add to html-tidy a method of configuring it not to add newlines
> > > or spacing before tags.
> > >
> > > Perhaps this could be like not using "indent".  I doubt this would need
> > > a per-tag configuratoin ability (such would be exhaustive) but could, at
> > > first, use a global config item.
> > >
> > > Allan
> > >
> > >
> > > Dave Raggett wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 11:23:15 -0700
> > > > From: webmaster@danzon.com
> > > > To: dsr@w3.org
> > > > Subject: tidy
> > > >
> > > > Tidy almost works, but can't be used safely until this can be fixed:
> > > >
> > > > There's sort of a major problem with tidy in that it by default
> > > > places the </td> tag on its own line, which basically destroys any
> > > > fine tuned table structure in most browsers out there by adding a
> > > > space, this also happens if say you have a block of text ended by
> > > > </p> followed by </td>, you hopefully have noted by now in your
> > > > career that the space between the last line of text increases
> > > > slightly if the </td> is on its own line, as opposed to following
> > > > the </p> tag, like </p></td>. This is the reality of most browsers
> > > > out there.
> > > >
> > > > Of course, you can run tidy to xhtml specs, then reformat your code
> > > > in dreamweaver, setting the break before </td> option off in its
> > > > configuration file, but that's getting pretty darned obscure, not to
> > > > mention a major pain in the butt, and excludes like 99% of the
> > > > world's users, since almost noone can do that, or even knows that
> > > > can be done.
> > > >
> > > > Your wrox book too had a bunch of these kinds of very subtle errors
> > > > and descrepancies that make me wonder a little about the people who
> > > > are making these standards. Not to mention that extremely, to put it
> > > > mildly, unfortunate decision to include a free advertisement for
> > > > that Mosquito product, whose connection to html and xhtml is distant
> > > > at best. Fortunately O'Reilly press sometimes is able to point out
> > > > some of these errors.
> > >
> >
> > --
> >  Dave Raggett <dsr@w3.org> or <dave.raggett@openwave.com>
> >  W3C lead for voice/multimodal. http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett
> >  tel/fax: +44 1225 866240 (or 867351) +44 771 213 7629 (GSM)
Received on Friday, 17 May 2002 23:19:14 GMT

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