See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 17 November 2011
<heycam> ed, not going to call in today, sorry
<Tav> it took me two tries
<cyril> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/svg2/file/5c6f60699bab
<cyril> doug, are you calling in?
<shepazu> oh, I could
<shepazu> when is it? now?
<cyril> yes
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20111117T20&p1=239
so the proposal is 19.00 UTC
<cyril> heycam, are you ok with 7am ?
<heycam> cyril, yes, that's ok
RESOLUTION: we'll move the weekly telcon to 19.00 UTC (was 20.00 UTC)
<scribe> scribeNick: ed
<Tav> http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/SPEC/StyleTestPage.html
TB: i'm proposing some changes based on the existing style
... the structure is merged, taking the best of both parts
... the page shows what I'm proposing
... suggested new structure is easier to edit and read
... old markup is using tables with deprecated attributes
... more appropriate to use css for styling it, proposal uses a dl
... what do you think?
CC: in the gradient syntax example i like what we had before
... in the new style we don't know if userSpaceOnUse is allowed
DS: i prefer simplicity where possible
... i'd like the markup to have classes so that it can be extracted easily
... to enable reuse for documentation
TB: i'm using classes in the proposal
DS: would prefer more, just to make it easy to pull the data out
... would like each dd to be class=value or class=propvalue
... just want to make sure it's easy to extract
TB: we have three appendices, they should be generated by script not handedited
ED: i think they are generated already by the buildscripts
<cyril> heycam, are the attribute, property and element tables generated automatically in SVG 1.1 2nd ed ?
TB: but they are in master too, why?
<heycam> cyril, property index no, element/attribute tables yes
for 1.2T the property index is generated too though, right? so not using the exact same setup
is/was
CC: you've tried to reuse the property table, also for attributes
... do we need the animatable?
TB: we had that before
<heycam> ed, it was, using robin's scripts
CC: no notion of initial value for attributes, we resolved to call them lacuna value
<heycam> ed, the SVG 1.1 property table includes more information than the 1.2T one though
<heycam> shepazu, don't forget to let me know what the issue with the table generation scripts are for the integration spec
DS: we should keep the lacuna value definition
... and not call it something else
<cyril> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/intro.html#TermLacunaValue
TB: we could link to the definition
... that works for me
ED: i think it's a good effort, the markup in 1.1 in some cases isn't great
TB: ok, so I can go ahead and apply it to the pservers.html chapter and we can see how that looks
<Tav> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2/Authoring_Guide
<cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2/Authoring_Guide
ED: your mail mentioned an authoring guide...
TB: i've merged what was on the wiki before with my suggestions
... explaining how it works, and the most important files
... lists how-tos for images, figures, examples etc
... how to add an element (the places you need to edit for adding one)
CC: you say that eltindex.html, but that's generated?
TB: right, that file shouldn't be needed
... i've not yet got to adding DOM interfaces
... comments?
CC: what's the differnce between notes and annotations, who's the target audience?
ED: you mention moving towards html5 in the spec, do you still want to keep the document xml-wellformed?
TB: yes, the edited version needs to be that since it contains custom markup
DS: we could generate two serializations
TB: yes, the XSL could output that
... the only thing i found that there can't be a comment before the doctype, IE goes into quirksmode
... validates as html5
ED: ok, so you don't want to move to using HTML5 for the master document
TB: right, i don't think we can
... want feedback on the editing proposals
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing_List_Feedback
TB: this is something with css right?
... it's going to be in css
CC: i don't know
TB: i would really like to see this in, it's very useful
... requested alot
... inkscape saves in the 1.2 full markup format, and people get caught by it
CC: i remember objections from the css group when this was added to 1.2
TB: with exclusions and regions css is adding the same functionality
CC: so we should investigate if those could work in/with svg, maybe a simplified version
DS: we should keep the dialog open on this
... so talk to vincent about it
CC: but we agree on the requirement?
DS: yes
<stearns> (nit) - exclusions is the shape. Regions isn't involved
TB: sounds good
DS: one part is textwrapping, and the other is the more general exclusions
RESOLUTION: svg2 will require automatic textwrapping in arbitrary shapes compatible with css
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing_List_Feedback#Enhanced_text_support
CC: the second thing there, isn't that glyph warping?
ED: i think so
CC: we've resolved on that already
... i'll move that bulletpoint
ED: the first bulletpoint isn't that something we already have in 1.1?
TB: would be nice if there was some more explanation here
ED: ok, so let's leave that until we have more details
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing_List_Feedback#Label_placement
TB: isn't there a mapping TF that this could be decided by?
DS: well, just because they have that usecase doesn't mean everyone else does it the same... dataviz relies on it
CC: is it possible to designa model that suits everyone?
DS: sceptic?
CC: i might want my label to be placed in the middleof a country, or outside on the left...
TB: i htink it's more about making labels not end up on top each other
DS: then we're getting into graph theory
TB: would like to see a complete proposal
... don't think it's an easy problem
DS: svg aslready has other wasy of drawing stuff, but if it's not easy to use then that's not good
... even if it's a hard problem if it enables people to make content easier that's good
RESOLUTION: we need a more concrete proposal before we can consider label placement
TB: yes
... it's not welldefined right now
ED: i agree
... would like to see that clarified
... what Israel and others were asking for is more complex than what Opera implements today
RESOLUTION: we will clarify method=stretch on textPath elements
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing_List_Feedback#Flip-invariant_text
TB: and if the element is flipped upside down you want it to render rightside up?
ED: yes I think that's the idea
CC: could be solved if we had transformBehaviour=pinned on text
ED: i think it's not a very big feature, but the req as such is fine with me
RESOLUTION: svg2 will have a way to specify flip-invariant text
trackbot, end telcon
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/textwrapping/textwrapping in arbitrary shapes/ Found ScribeNick: ed Inferring Scribes: ed Default Present: +1.408.543.aaaa, +61.2.980.5.aabb, cyril, +33.9.53.77.aacc, Tav, [IPcaller], ed, +1.919.824.aadd, [Microsoft] Present: +1.408.543.aaaa +61.2.980.5.aabb cyril +33.9.53.77.aacc Tav [IPcaller] ed +1.919.824.aadd [Microsoft] Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011OctDec/0066.html WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Found Date: 17 Nov 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-svg-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]