W3C

- DRAFT -

SVG Working Group Teleconference

29 Jun 2009

Agenda

Attendees

Present
Doug_Schepers, anthony, ChrisL, [IPcaller], ed, heycam, jwatt
Regrets
Chair
Cameron
Scribe
anthony

Contents


<scribe> scribe: anthony

<ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Errata_in_SVG_1.1_Second_Edition

Issues and open actions for 1.1 2nd Edition

CM: Thought it might be a good idea to go through some
... move some to Core 2

CL: Most are done except for 4 items

DS: Would be good to get do the clip path one

CL: I think that one is covered by another one

<ChrisL> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/REC-SVG11-20030114-errata.html#clippath-affects-bounding-boxes

CL: I think we can mark it as not needed
... because it's covered by another one

CM: It would be good to discuss those other two ones

ED: Looks fine

DS: It's about JW not wanting to make something more confusing
... we agreed to discuss it when JW had time to look at it
... if we go forward with the other boundingBox ones it kind of clarifies it
... I think we should probably wait with that as well

CM: There is one left on JW's list
... and that can be left as well
... I haven't made much progress in writing of tests for the ones I've folded in
... don't really need to discuss them at the moment

<heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1

CM: I'd like to take a look at the open actions in Tracker
... on 1.1
... There are certainly some that sound like they might have been done already
... should we go through and mark these off one by one?

CL: So you said some of these have been done already?

CM: I think some of the actions are done
... but the action in tracker has been left open

One telcon a week

DS: Chris as I recall the reason you said we went to two
... was we were talking about Full and Tiny

CL: Yes that was originally the reason
... I think two telcons in general is good
... but if one of them is going to be about has everyone done there actions
... then time is better spent doing the actions

CM: I do like the idea of having the time of doing the actions
... if we just said no telcon at this time
... people can allocate the time for work
... I would be happy with turning the Monday telcon to time for Actions

ED: I think it's easier for me
... to come up with action items
... and things to discuss
... if there is only one telcon later on in the week

<ed> ED: I'd prefer having the telcon on wednesdays, and the monday for doing actions (or another day in the week)

CM: So baring changing the telcon time all together
... would it be ok to have the time for actions

DS: We could do it like we do our marathons just a smaller version

ED: We could see if the time is not enough to discuss things we could go back to two telcons?

CL: Sounds fine with me

DS: So next week we'll just have a Wed telcon?

CL: I suggest we do this for July
... and re-evaluate in August

DS: This ties in with summer plans for people

ED: I will be gone for half of July
... so may be we should extend the trial period

AG: I'll be gone for a week in July
... might still dial in

CM: No plans

JW: Away two weeks time
... week of the 13th

DS: So I guess we can say July and August we do one telcon a week
... and see how it goes

CM: having defined time is good because it gives us allocated time to work on SVG
... outside our other work

RESOLUTION: We will only meet for one telcon a week during July and August

Sending agenda to www-svg

CL: No objection to that
... as long as it also keeps going to the same place

DS: With the minutes we planned on sending them to www-svg and bcc public
... by contrast with the Agenda
... it would be bcc-ed www-svg and sent to the working group list

CL: I don't mind that

CM: I think sending the agend to www-svg is probably less useful than the minutes
... but it shows that their topics will be discussed

DS: That was one of my ideas to sending them to the list
... them = agenda

RESOLUTION: We will send to the agenda public list and bcc the www-svg list

Open Actions on 1.1

<heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1

ACTION-2021?

<trackbot> ACTION-2021 -- Erik Dahlström to add informative implementation tip regarding filter primitive subregion and research the second question in Robert's email and respond to that as well -- due 2008-05-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2021

CM: Erik's action

ED: I'm wondering if this is for Filters 1.2
... and not for the errata anyway

CM: Sounds like this might be for later

ED: I raised an issue about primitive sub regions

<ed> related to ISSUE-2284

ISSUE-2284?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2284 -- Clarify how the primitive subregion affects the filter input and outputs for all filter primitives -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2284

ACTION-2067?

<trackbot> ACTION-2067 -- Anthony Grasso to add Eriks proposed wording to the Errata. Link to ACTION-2066 -- due 2008-06-19 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2067

AG: Haven't really checked back if wording for filters has been updated

ED: This could probably go into 1.2
... not super urgent

<ed> this is ISSUE-2188

CM: I'll reassign it to SVG
... unless there is any objection

ED: Issue is raised on the filters module

CM: AGs action is to port the wording
... just reassigned that

ACTION-2077?

<trackbot> ACTION-2077 -- Erik Dahlström to test implementations for percentage values in clipPath, etc. -- due 2008-07-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2077

ED: This one is more of an exploritory one
... to see what implementations are doing for clipPaths
... would be nice to do it for core 2

CM: Ok, I'll reassign that

ACTION-2134?

<trackbot> ACTION-2134 -- Doug Schepers to find someone who knows about xsd to review and make the changes in gavin's e-mail -- due 2008-08-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2134

DS: Not completed this action
... have started it
... couldn't find anyone who had time to help us do XSD

CL: Long standing problem

CM: so we published XSD for 1.1?

<heycam> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Mar/0085.html

CL: I don't think we did
... This is a schema as far as I can tell
... Oxygen made up
... they were at one point providing it with Oxygen
... I think it was made from a DTD

CM: So it's
... not really our issue

CL: No

DS: But it says that "no of the XSDs supplied by W3C..."

CM: Just found an XSD in the 1.0 spec
... I found it in the old repository

CL: We may have intended to work on it one point
... but it didn't get published with the spec

CM: Maybe we didn't have in the final draft of the spec

DS: I should do something about it

CM: Maybe it's a good idea email Gavin and say we don't provide one

CL: I think a good response might be to say we look more at RNG rather than XSD
... I think he's taken it from Oxygen and we didn't make it

DS: If he supplied it why didn't I do it at the time?

CL: Snowed under?

CM: Anyway, lets reassign this action so it's not part of 1.1

<ChrisL> http://www.oxygenxml.com/forum/topic2481.html

CL: I found a forum posting about this
... not sure if it's relevant

<ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/WD-SVG11-20020108/SVG.xsd

CL: link to our site with an XSD
... Produced by XMLspy
... is this linked in a spec?

CM: Looks like it was dropped

<ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/WD-SVG11-20020108/#schema

DS: I'll try to talk to Gavin
... if supplied it maybe we should supply an XSD

CL: That document that we had in 2002 is not necessarily up to date

DS: What value is there in us supplying an XSD

CL: I would rather that we have a relaxNG and generate an XSD from that

DS: This relates to a later action
... I got

<ChrisL> was in a wd, was not developed fiurther. its not in the final rec

DS: which was to ask Robin Berjon about generating a RelaxNG

<ChrisL> better to develop an xsd from the rng (once we make one)

CM: I'll reassign that action of your DS to be on 1.1

ACTION-2163?

<trackbot> ACTION-2163 -- Erik Dahlström to add 1.1 errata for stroke-dasharray to align 1.1 with SVGT1.2 (to allow whitespace-separated values) -- due 2008-08-30 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2163

ED: I held off on this one
... because you had an action to deal with the syntaxes

CM: Maybe should assign this one to me then

ED: Would like to have this in the errata
... would be nice, because it's something I always run into trying to get things running in all the browsers

CM: Ok, I'll keep this one open

ACTION-2203?

<trackbot> ACTION-2203 -- Doug Schepers to add to the 1.1 Full errata that the initial value for the root overflow property is scroll rather than hidden -- due 2008-09-30 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2203

CM: Seems like it's about overflow initial values on the SVG element

DS: We definitely need to put that in

RESOLUTION: ACTION-2203 will go into 1.1 Full 2nd edition

ACTION-2358?

<trackbot> ACTION-2358 -- Doug Schepers to propose wording for the clip path pointer-events erratum and masking/compositing module change -- due 2008-12-04 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2358

CM: This one sounds like it's probably been done

DS: I think so
... this should be maybe pending review

ACTION-2367?

<trackbot> ACTION-2367 -- Erik Dahlström to propose an errata item for rx and ry -- due 2008-12-08 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2367

ED: I did send the proposal and we haven't agreed on what should be final text
... I'm fine to changing the implementation to something we can all agree on
... I think there are 3 or so proposals
... The one I made, the Mozilla one, and the third is CSS3
... and align to that

JW: I thought 2 and 3 were quite similar

ED: I could try and look at that
... which is what's left to do
... for that one
... does it need to be done for the errata or can it leave for core 2?

JW: It's an edge case
... so can probably leave it

CM: We can probably leave it for core 2

ED: I started make test cases for it
... not sure if I committed those
... I'll move this to Core 2

ACTION-2372?

<trackbot> ACTION-2372 -- Doug Schepers to propose revised wording for the errata item "Capturing pointer-events with a zero opacity mask" to clarify it with clip-path -- due 2008-12-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2372

CM: Do you want me to close this one?
... or mark it pending review?

DS: Mark it pending review

CM: They are separate issues but the solution was the same place in the spec

ACTION-2386?

<trackbot> ACTION-2386 -- Jonathan Watt to investigate the "SVGZoomEvent - Interface" errata item further -- due 2008-12-25 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2386

JW: I finished this one already

CM: What was the result of the investigation?
... what happened to the errata on it?

JW: May have not written it

CM: Is it something you think is important enough to do for 2nd edition?

JW: Well, no body seems to implement it other than Mozilla

ED: We send it

JW: I mean providing an interface
... I'm just wondering if nobody provides anything for the interface

<heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Errata_in_SVG_1.1_Second_Edition

JW: there is no rush to get it done
... it's easy to do
... just involves removing stuff

CM: Can wait for you to do that
... once you're done with your work

CL: yeah, probably easier to remove it

ACTION-2402?

<trackbot> ACTION-2402 -- Erik Dahlström to go through the 1.2 Tiny test suite to check if there are any tests for zero length paths that test for directionality and add those to the 1.1 Full test suite -- due 2009-01-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2402

CM: Sounds more like a test suite action
... than something on the spec

ED: I wonder if this is a generic one
... I don't know if it's totally necessary to do it for 1.1 2nd edition
... the tests for Tiny should mostly work in a 1.1 viewer

CM: Should we put this one off then?

ED: I wonder if we even need this one though

CM: In general we want to add more coverage to the test suite
... but I don't know if there was a reason for adding these tests

ED: We were thinking of back porting wording from 1.1 Tiny
... going through that there was nothing to back port

CM: So we don't need to do anything special?

ED: Right

CM: Sounds like we should just close it and when we get to tightening up the wording in SVG 2
... we'll make the tests

ED: I'll close the action

ACTION-2403?

<trackbot> ACTION-2403 -- Jonathan Watt to take a look at the discussions in the errata item http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#bzwidth before the SYD F2F -- due 2009-01-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2403

<heycam> action-2469?

<trackbot> ACTION-2469 -- Jonathan Watt to flesh out the intrinsic sizing erratum with text backported from 1.2T -- due 2009-02-24 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2469

CM: Related to ACTION-2469
... ACTION-2403 can be closed

ACTION-2404?

<trackbot> ACTION-2404 -- Doug Schepers to add errata item for root overflow -- due 2009-01-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2404

ED: Didn't we discuss this previously?

DS: Ok, I'll just close this one

ACTION-2415?

<trackbot> ACTION-2415 -- Chris Lilley to check the Tiny 1.2 Chapter to see if there is any text in there that can be used for ISSUE-2001 -- due 2009-02-02 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2415

<ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/fonts.html#FontFaceElement

CL: Looked into it
... seems like there is some wording

<ChrisL> 17.8.2 The 'font-face' element

CL: it's a bit round-about

<ChrisL> When used to describe the characteristics of an SVG font contained within the same document, it is recommended that the 'font-face' element be a child of the 'font' element it is describing so that the 'font' element can be self-contained and fully-described. In this case, any 'font-face-src' elements within the 'font-face' element are ignored as it is assumed that the 'font-face' element is describing the characteristics of its parent 'font' element.

CL: says that here's a case where it should be inside
... if we were putting that wording in, I'd like to add a sentence in
... that says

<ChrisL> prefer to add a second sentence to say explicitly that otherwise, it need not be a child of font

<heycam> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/fonts.html#FontFaceElement

CM: Looks like that the text in 1.1 is pretty similar

CL: Do you think the second sentence would help?

CM: I think it would
... in the test suite they're all children of font-face

CL: I thought we had samples where it wasn't

ED: I think we have both

CL: There's an example in 1.2 Tiny that doesn't have it explicitly in a font
... if we've agreed to that I'll stick that wording in

CM: So you'll just re-use that action?

CL: yes

ACTION-2461?

<trackbot> ACTION-2461 -- Jonathan Watt to suggest some rewritten text for these suspend methods -- due 2009-02-23 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2461

CM: JW you were champion this one in SYD, do you want in 2nd edition?

JW: Yes, would want it in there
... I'll try to get to this after the telcon

ACTION-2472?

<trackbot> ACTION-2472 -- Doug Schepers to fill in the currentTranslate/currentScale erratum to explicitly make using those attributes on inner <svg> elements undefined -- due 2009-02-24 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2472

CM: Is this something we want to be in?

DS: I think I did this
... I'll research and see if I did this
... I think I did

<heycam> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/REC-SVG11-20030114-errata.html#getCurrentTime_setCurrentTime_undefined_before_document_timeline_begin

CM: Wrong link
... I can't see it in that file

<heycam> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.html#svgzoomevent-previous-new

ED: Yeah, it's not in the published version of 2nd edition

CM: Wrong link again

<heycam> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.html#currenttranslate-currentscale-nested-svg

CM: There it is

<ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/struct.html#__svg__SVGSVGElement__currentScale

CM: I can keep it open

DS: Yeah, I think this should go in there

ACTION-2477?

<trackbot> ACTION-2477 -- Doug Schepers to propose a solution for ISSUE-2071, referring to external resources and how that affects security (\"tainting\" an svg) and how that might apply to methods like elementFromPoint -- due 2009-02-26 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2477

DS: This is the one from ROC
... I think JW should take this

CM: I remember we have long discussions in SYD about this
... I don't think this is as critical to get done
... only because we don't really deal with origins in the spec at the moment

CL: It's better to have not anything in there
... than have something that needs to be changed

DS: I remember we said we would put something saying there is a security risk
... and we'd look at fixing the risk in SVG 2

ACTION-2489?

<trackbot> ACTION-2489 -- Doug Schepers to look into allowing RDF in the SVG DTD -- due 2009-03-16 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2489

CL: Not possible
... can't have a DTD which covers all of the RDF
... you can't do this
... you'd need every possible name space
... just can't do it

DS: Could it be solved in the context of RelaxNG

CL: In NVDL you can do it

DS: I'm going to add that

CL: I'm not sure about using RelaxNG for this either

DS: Could RelaxNG or NVDL look at DTD?

CL: no
... you can, but not for this case
... it's not going to help in this case

CM: DS will you assign this to a different product?

DS: I'm going to leave it open
... we could reach some conclusion on this
... when I talk to Robin Berjon

ACTION-2507?

<trackbot> ACTION-2507 -- Doug Schepers to contact robin berjon to ask for help with converting the 1.1 DTD to RNG and related issues -- due 2009-04-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2507

CM: Already in the process of doing this DS?

DS: I have contacted him about it
... and I just did again
... put it to pending review
... The action of contacting him, I've done that
... That's not really what needs to be done

CM: I think that means we can close the next two then

CL: I wanted to talk about the second one
... there was a second edition published of XHTML 1.1
... they got knocked back on DTD
... I think it would be risky to do that
... For people that need an RNG it doesn't hurt for it to be in separate spec

CM: There were a few reasons for having an RNG for 1.1
... were thinking of building a spec on it
... but this late it might be a bit of work

DS: I don't particularly mind doing that where we publish it as a note

CL: It's very easy to say it's not an errata

DS: I do want to do it

CM: Probably the RNG would make it easier to do some checking

CL: The RNG wouldn't be used to introduce new things

DS: I do understand where you're coming from
... I don't want us to be accused of changing the SVG spec with another spec
... the work is going to be done either way

CL: There is also some stuff on correctness of NVDL that we need to follow up on

CM: I'm happy with what CL proposes
... so ACTION-2508 can be closed
... ACTION-2516 can be left open

CL: Perhaps put it on a separate product

ACTION-2543?

<trackbot> ACTION-2543 -- Cameron McCormack to fix and align the font elements regarding font-face-src and definition-src in SVG 1.1F and SVG 1.2T -- due 2009-05-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2543

CM: One of mine
... haven't done
... I mailed the list at one point
... talking about the differences in content models

between Tiny 1.2 and Full 1.1

scribe: this action may have already been done
... happy to keep that one open for now

ACTION-2547?

<trackbot> ACTION-2547 -- Cameron McCormack to re-render the equations in the implnote appendix -- due 2009-05-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2547

CM: This was to make the equations in the appendix better looking
... lower priority than other ones
... so I'll leave it until last
... if there is time for it I'll do it

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2009-03-02 03:52:20 $